Sounds pretty interesting. Any one else out there ever try rigging their herring leaders like this? He specifically said "motor mooching" for kings, but I wonder how well it would work on a steady troll.

i dont think i would try unless i was bored, like maybe neah bay when your getting so many coho you start cut plugging hot dogs and stuff just to see if it will work

i have used them before trolling chin weighted ballyhoo and split tail mullets for billfish but the hook rides on top of the head. even still i dont think that most would use them if it wasnt the rules for billfish cuz they do miss alot of strikes where you would of had the fish for sure if it was a siwash. seems like it would be about the same for salmon, however, salmon trolling is way slower and maybe they would work better at the slower speed with more chomping of the bait, or for mooching.

maybe a test is needed at sekiu or neah this summer

A few years ago Ronnie Kovach (ESPN Outdoors) and a rep from Eagle Claw filmed a show at the resort I work at, while they were there, the rep called all the guides together and gave us each a box of various sizes and styles of hooks and asked if any of us use "circle hooks" for anything other then halibut, nobody did, then he asked if anyone wanted to try them and only 1 guide volunteered (not me). They tied up a couple dozen mooching rigs with 2, 4/0 circles and headed out, Jeff the guide said they all started out using them but by the end of the day, only the rep was still using them, he said that instead of either dropping back to a bite or reeling which is what we instruct guest to do, you have to basically stop reeling or reel really slow to get the fish to take the bait which was causing them to miss alot of bites. They did catch some and once they were on they usually stayed on but he said the catch ratio was pretty low compared to the "Octopus" hooks we typically use. Jeff told me he thought they would probably work pretty well for a wide open silver bite where the fish hit just about anything in the water but he wouldn't use them for fishing kings.

I rig my herring hooks about 6 inches apart (eye to eye). It is very common for a king in the 25-35# range to get hooked in the corner of the mouth with the trailer hook, but then sometime during the battle, the top hook finds the pectoral fin on the same side as the corner hookup. Now some of you might be thinking.... alright .... double hookup!

Well, not so fast... the top hook in the pectoral means ZERO ability to steer that fish during the fight, especially for beginners who really haven't honed their fish-fighting skills. On a fish that size, it means a LONG battle, an exhausted fish, and a tough net job when the angler is struggling to get the fish to the surface, even when the fish is dead tired. The fish just tends to spin in circles like a whole bait herring.

I'm thinking the circle on top would really help prevent the pectoral hookups.

I am a firm believer that the top hook is basically there to hold the bait, and the trailer catches the fish....at least that's been my experience the vast majority of the time. With the circle/octopus rigging described, I don't really think I'd be giving up too much lost hooking opportunity on the top hook.... my octopus stinger is still there.

Because we are required to fish barbless, another plus is that the circle holds the bait better than the octopus.

I will definitely have to give it a try next year.

I tried the circle hooks a few years back in Grays Harbor after doing okay halibut fishing with them. I missed the first few salmon by pulling the hooks right out of thier mouths. I then allowed the fish to munch on the bait a while before reeling the line tight. I ended up hooking the fish down near the base of the gills, with the stinger hook dangling out through the the gill plates. After a couple of days of salmon fishing like this I gave up on the idea of using those circle hooks.

I'm experimenting with circle hooks for both herring in the salt and eggs/shrimp in the tribs. My success has been mixed.

Since I normally fish bobber/eggs in the tribs, the circle hook has not been as effective as I would prefer. My guess is that when fishing a bobber/egg, the hook needs to bury itself in the roof of the mouth. But a circle hook needs soft tissue, such as the tonuge, or a lip/jaw to get a soild hookup. Trying to bury a circle hook in the roof of the mouth is difficult, thus a few too many lost fish. But I like the "no hookset" advantage of a circle hook so I will keep trying.

For herring rigs in the mainstem Columbia, I have not been any more or less successful using circle hooks than standard octopus hooks. I don't normally set the hook when trolling a herring rig anyway so there is no real advantage. Circle hooks seem to be safer since it's much more difficult to hook yourself, or your buddy, than octopus hooks.

When fishing the blue water, I always use barbless hooks, rather than octopus hooks with the barb pinched down. The deep bend in barbless hooks is very close to being a circle hook. I believe it's much more difficult to throw a circle hook, or a barbless hook, when fishing the ocean.

My .02

cohoangler

Interesting observation on the barbless octopus. I've noticed that they have a more exaggerated, almost circular bend. I have successfully used them with eggs in the river as well as with herring in the salt. Haven't really paid much attention to how much better they were for keeping a hooked fish on.

I do know that guys in my boat still manage to occasionally let a fresh pristine bait herring fall off of either barbless or de-barbed hooks before they can get their goods deployed What's up with that? The seagulls never seem to miss an opportunity, though.

Circle on the top should take care of that problem.

This last summer I did some experimenting with circles out at Neah. It was one of those times when it didnt matter what you put out so I figured might as well try something new. I used 2 4/0 gamagatsu circles with a cut plug. (4/0 circles really arent as big as you think).
I think a combo like you are talking about with a circle on the top and a regular octopus hook on the bottom is the way to go. Hooking fish was not as easy with the double circles (hard to watch your rod that long without wanting to jump up and set em) but once you let the fish hook themselves they didnt come off no matter how many jumps or head shakes the fish would give you. Cant wait to try the circle on top owner cutting point on the bottom, think that will be unstopable.

I like to use circles for live-bait fishing in all over the place including washington. When barbless hooks are required, they don't wiggle off as often and the hook point doesn't work it's way back into the bait. Of course the other advantage is that the fish don't throw them either.

Going thru my salmon trolling stats, I averaged 51% of takedowns coming all the way to the net using a de-barbed 5/0 Gami Octopus on the front and a 4/0 de-barbed Gami Octopus trailer 6" behind. The trailer hooked the vast majority of the fish.

Some days that setup was like money in the bank, and other days..... well, let's just say there were other days. I would like to improve on those stats next year. Based on this discussion, I will try running a barbless circle up front and a barbless (made that way) octopus for the trailer. I'll run that rig on at least one rod every time out for the whole season and see what happens.