Excerpts from the AP:

A group of 26 retired U.S. diplomats and military officers said Wednesday that President Bush should be voted out of office in November for damaging U.S. national security interests and America's standing in the international community.

Prominent members include retired Marine Gen. Joseph P. Hoar, commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East during the administration of Bush's father; retired Adm. William J. Crowe Jr., ambassador to Britain under President Bill Clinton and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under President Ronald Reagan; and retired Adm. Stansfield Turner, former head of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Retired Gen. Merrill A. "Tony" McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff, said the Bush administration anticipated a rosy reception after a military victory in Iraq but "we were totally unprepared for the post-combat occupation. So we see here unfolding before us a total disaster."

Charles Freeman, former ambassador to Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf war, said the administration's handling of wider relations with the Islamic world was particularly damaging to U.S. interests in the long run.

Also included is Jack F. Matlock, who was appointed by Reagan as ambassador to the Soviet Union and retained the post under the first President Bush, and William C. Harrop, the first President Bush's ambassador to Israel and four African countries.

Normally, former diplomats and military commanders avoid making political statements, especially in an election year. But last month 53 former diplomats accused the Bush administration of undermining U.S. credibility in the Middle East by its strong support for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Leonardo Dicaprio said the same thing.

I am really waiting for Alec Baldwin to weigh in before I decide who I will vote for. If he sides with Suasn Sarandon I may have to mow kerrys name in my pasture and rename the new steer

Wait till you see how many people say it in November.

Hey TK,

Don't make any quick decisions until you've
heard what Barbara Streisand and Rosie O'Donnell have to say on the subject.


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"People are about as happy as they make their minds up to be."--Abraham Lincoln (I think)

It's what they resort to when they have nothing valid to say.

These were all honchos under republican administrations. What can TK say to that except something dumb?

I'm going to wait to see what ronald reagan has to say....

...and then I'm gonna ask arnold, gopher and fred thompson.

"What is it with you guys and celebrities? I don't think I have ever taken their endorsment of a candidate under consideration in my life."

When you say the same things as those intelectuals you can see where it leads. Great minds think alike and all. :p

I need spell check. I cannot type to save my life. I use intellectuals as a joke. I see retired generals and embassy officals making political statements for what they are, their opinions. I would expect some old school military and diplomats to have trouble with new strategies. It is a big slow shift away from Marshall plan doctrine which is the school these people where trained. People are going to fight that shift tooth and nail and it's the basis of almost every dispute we have in this forum re: the election.

Yeah dismiss the opinion of experts...nice.

Stlhd,

All the experts said my son could not be here. Some of the best Dr's in the US said there was no way my wife could every get pregnant again. A year later she was pregnant. Then they said the pregnancy would not make it to term. Then they said he would be born with Downs. When he was born they left the room real quick and to this day they shake their heads. I have a perfectly healthy 5 year old boy. Who catches fish like a madman. They may have been experts in their day but things have changed. Only those willing to change move forward. Kinda of Darwinian I would think you could go with that. Take the cement out of your shoes .

What you seem to fail to accept is the value and credibility of those opinions. When I consider the opinion of a retired general versus some "suit" that's read a few books on warfare, I'll take that general's word evertime. So I'd say the credibility of the opinion stated in that paper is pretty hefty.

And I'll tell you who has the biggest problem right now abandoning old school thoughts and strategies: Rumsfeld, Rice, and Cheney. They're still stuck in the Cold War thinking they can defeat terrorists like the old commies.

GH,

Why do I have to I have to fail to grasp or fail to understand or fail to respect thier opinions to disagree with them on some issues? I did not realize it was a zero sum game. If we followed in lock step nothing would ever change.

I do not agree with Bush on a bunch of issues.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AuntyM

"We get ourselves into trouble when we decide another country must be forced into democracy."--AuntyM


Yeah! Thank God we never to attempted to force democracy and freedom on Gemany, Japan and eventually the Eastern Block.


"Patriotic Sportsmen for Bush '04

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"I am not a victim"---Michael Medved

SCOWAK - In my continuing quest to make sure we stick to the facts, it is important to note that Adolf Hitler was elected to his post prior to him becoming Fuhrer.

I agree. If we'd actually tried to force democracy on those countries it would have never held. Retaliating after being attacked, as we did, and then guiding those countries to form the government that best suited them was the right call.

Too bad we don't have an administration that understands that concept and learns from history.

What's even more ludicrous is the administration's attempt at forming an analogy between Iraq and WWII. Pathetic.

AM,

Anything that is not contained within the intent of the US Constitution.

" I pray no hawk ever sends your precious son to die in an unecessary war TK" I realize that there is a price to pay for freedom. I am raising a man and he will realize that that is one of the potential prices for freedom. As it stands now it is an all volunteer army and everyone is there by choice. If he makes that choice I will have to deal with what comes. Life is not about what you like and dislike sometimes its about what is and how you deal with it. I have a faith that I subscribe to that has taught me that nothing happens with out a purpose. Sometimes it just takes a lot of time and heartache to find that purpose.

I do not consider it good . Nessesary yes ,and I thought we should have done it right the first time. The war on terror is multidimensional and will take forms we have never seen before it is over.

Calling it about GW's ego is uniformed as are conspiracies,economic motives etc. I think it's fair for someone to disagree with the war but do it at face value for what it is. Why do you have to qualify your disagreement with accusations. Why could it not just be that you think he made a mistake. His heart was in the right place for him and it just not line up with yours? Something along those lines.