House Republicans, under strong pressure from the White House, narrowly defeated an effort yesterday to water down the Bush administration's signature law to combat domestic terrorism.


By a 210 to 210 tie vote that GOP leaders prolonged for 23 tumultuous minutes while they corralled dissident members, the House rejected a proposed change to the USA Patriot Act that would have barred the Justice Department from searching bookstore and library records. White House officials, citing the nearly three-year-old law's importance as an anti-terrorism tool, warned that an attempt to weaken it would be vetoed.

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Anything you read or buy can be used against you. Check out any book big brother says it doesn't like.....this doesn't just apply to terrorist cases now......and you can be hauled in. Take note....the justice department can perfornm these 'searches' without a warrant.

May I see this list of books please?

Now I ask you....does Dubya really stand for "freedom"?

No. We are living in as close to a police state as we ever have. US citizens have been stripped of their rights and held indefinitely without charge. The government can monitor what you read and write without having probable cause to do so. You can be held indefinitely as a material witness without a single shred of credible evidence you have been involved in a crime.

These things are true folks.

I thought all this war and flag waving was about protecting freedom? I thought we all agreed that once terrorists have the effect of diminishing our freedom they are winning their war?

Why aren't we fighting to protect our freedom on all fronts?

To see this administration as anything other than a stain on the american is record is unfathomable to me.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stlhdh2o:


Anything you read or buy can be used against you. Check out any book big brother says it doesn't like.....this doesn't just apply to terrorist cases now......and you can be hauled in.--stlhdH20


WRONG Orwell!


The U.S.A. Patriot Act specifically protects Americans First Amendment rights, and terrorism investigators have no interests in the library habits of ordinary Americans.

Under the Patriot Act, the definition of "domestic terrorism" is limited to conduct that (1) violates federal or state criminal law and (2) is dangerous to human life. Therefore,
peaceful political organizations engaging in political advocacy will obviously not come under this definition. (Patriot Act, Section 802)

I'm not sure if that would apply to your plans to overthow the government with a group of "gay commie nazis" or not.

Section 215 of the Patriot Act ensures that the business records-whether from a library or any other business-can be obtained in national security investigations with the PERMISSION of a federal judge.


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May I see this list of books please?--stlhdH20


If they did look into your reading habits, would one of the books in your library be Misleading Propaganda about the Patriot Act for anti-Bush Dummies?

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Now I ask you....does Dubya really stand for "freedom"?--stlhdH20


YES!



First and foremost he stands for Americans to be free from domestic terrorist acts--and if it requires codifying the authority (via the Patriot Act) law enforcement officials have had for decades in going after organized crime, drug dealers and child pornagraghers so be it.

Or, do you believe like the ACLU that the rights of foriegn terrorists and child pornagraphers are more important than the safety of American citizens and their children?

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We are living in as close to a police state as we ever have. US citizens have been stripped of their rights and held indefinitely without charge.

These things are true folks.--stlhdH20


WRONG! They're not true folks.


Section 412 (Mandetory detention of suspected terrorists; habeas corpus; judicial review) in the Patriot Act allows the government, with extensive judicial supervision, temporarily to detain terrorist aliens until they are removed from the country. It is the equivalent of denying bail to a criminal defendant. Section 412 ensures that the terrorists are not released to live among the people they seek to harm.

Law-abiding Americans have nothing to fear from section 412. It applies only to aliens who in engage in terrorism or otherwise pose a severe theat to national security. And detention lasts only as long as it takes to remove an alien from the U.S.

Section 412 expressly grants the alien the right to challenge their detension in court. Aliens may file a habeas petition in any federal disrict court that has juristiction.


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"Johnny is the basement mixing up the medicine--

I'm on the pavement thinking about the government.......


You better duck down the alley way--

find yourself a better way!.....


Don't trust leaders --

and watch your parking meters!"


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Hey on a lighter note stlhdH20,


If you haven't already--check out the new Comedy Central show CrossBalls (a spoof of Crossfire and Hardball). I believe it's on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays at 11:30 pm. If you're not up at that late hour--set your VCR and check it out. It's pretty funny stuff-I think you'll dig it.

I must have wiped my ass with that part of the 'act'. I don't have the inclination to explain how broadly you could interpret the sections of 'act' mentioned, specifically the one that was up for vote yesterday. Since you are willing to just swallow abrogated freedom hook line and sinker, why waste my time.


btw...

So far, I think Crossballs is pretty stupid but I'm giving it a chance because I like the concept.

The best part has been the running headlines beneath the Crossballs combatants. I'm still waiting for one of the comedians to actually be funny.

kerry missed the vote, said he was too busy

Papaslap - So John Kerry is now a Representative, not a Senator? That is quite a flip flop.

Sorry my bad I'm an idiot......

the thing is , is that if he had the opportunity to vote he most likely wouldn't take the time..

You can try to paint Dubya, (Dumbya?) any way you want to, but the rest of the thinking public has seen his stripes,(yellow) and will not stand for another year of this money grabing, corporate wh@re.

I am not pretending to know about such things, but the patriot act inmy opinion can be viewed in action after 9/11. in a matter of a week or two we had scoured the country and knew who they where, where they lived, when they got here and yes what books they read. now on the same token, we have been hunting for a 6'6" diabetic terrorist in a country with less population that washington state for what 3 years now? what were the numbers for the "innocents" who were interviewed or investigated about 9/11 probably profound. If we spent nearly as much time superivisng our borders and ports of entry we would have far fewer problems. maybe I'm wrong but thats my view

I agree.


Getting the munchies and going to 7-11: Good for the economy?

And the left has been accusing the right of fear mongering.