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#274305 - 11/03/04 11:29 AM What Bush Should Do Now
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
He has won, and as far as I can see he won fair and square. We need to support him when we think he’s right and try to nudge him a bit more towards fish friendly policies whenever possible.

IMHO what he needs to do is try to bring the country together. The divisiveness and downright hatred I have seen expressed by both sides is not good for the U.S.A.

I am hopeful that Bush will see that
and do all he can to be the uniter he promised to be. Hopefully with no more elections in his future he can pull away from the far right folks and become a bit more moderate. Only time will tell.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#274306 - 11/03/04 11:52 AM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
"While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer. "

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#274307 - 11/03/04 03:23 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
Bush has another opportunity for greatness, just like right after 9-11. If he lets the neocons in his administration go wild with their bulldozer tactics without reaching across the isle on some issues, he will miss this oppourutinity again.

It will be interesting who desides to stay and who goes. Rice, Rumsfeld, Powell.... There could be some really interesting kiss and tell books.

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#274308 - 11/03/04 03:37 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
I heard a disturbing rumor (and I HOPE it's just a rumor) that Colin Powell may be stepping down as Secretary of State to be replaced by none other than Paul Wolfowitz!

If it's true then God help us all...
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#274309 - 11/03/04 03:45 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
stlhd_dreaming Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 393
Loc: maine
4 salt,

That rumor is correct you will also see a bunch of Bushes cabinet step down because they also believe that bush is running the house for his own personnel goals
_________________________
Just remember that people are giving there lives over seas when you start bickering about a photo of a fish out of water !!!!!!

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#274310 - 11/03/04 04:30 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4Salt,



"If it's true then God help us all... "

Your prayers have been answered. God helped us all yesterday.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#274311 - 11/03/04 05:08 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 2955
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
king,

Would you REALLY prefer Wolfowitz to Powell as Secretary of State?

I can see it now... Tactical nuclear diplomacy! :rolleyes:

Powell is (was) the ONE bright spot in the Bush administration IMHO... well, until he succumbed to cabinet pressure to go along with the WMD farce.
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#274312 - 11/03/04 05:17 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
4Salt,

Yes . I subscribe to the Goldwater theory on using military force. When you decide to use it use it all and decimate the enemy. I think the doctrine that Powell subscribes to will not work in the Islamic world in the long term. Wolfies influence has been this; Osama wanted to unite the Islamic world against us , he failed, so much so that today we recieve intel from every Islamic state against Al Queada. He wanted to crash our economy he failed. at the end of the day all he could do was send a ham handed tape to try and scare people into voting for capitulation. That did not happen because Powell is strong statesman. It happened because his statesmanship was backed up with some guys that would bring it on otherwise.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#274313 - 11/03/04 05:53 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 948
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
I think part of Al Queda's plan is to bleed our coffers dry on these protracted wars, aka what happened to the former Solviet Union.

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#274314 - 11/03/04 06:01 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Agreed. But will they last long enough? Seems to me that attacking other nations and killing innocent people has made it difficult for Islamic states to harbor them. Every Islamic state has provided some help in tracking them down. Knowing that they cannot afford to isolate themselves from the west. They are not giving it 100% but it only takes a little.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#274315 - 11/03/04 06:37 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
1) I think Bush needs to understand that the Environment is BIG BUSINESS. Individuals and communities benifit far more economically with a healthy environment than they do from commercial fishing, logging and mining. I'm not saying get rid of it all but save wild places. It also means that if it is in the forests best interest to chop it down then chop it down. I'm tired of hiking through dead forests such as those in the Pasayten Wilderness. We've all seen this the last few years with the huge Chinook runs in the Columbia. We also see it every fall in places like Republic, Wa .
1-a) Drill, Drill and more Drilling!

2) Make the tax cut permanent and get rid of the IRS

3) Get rid of the death tax. Why should only rich people be able to pass on a lifetime's creation of wealth to their children?

4) Continue to support/implament policies that incourage an "ownership sociaty."

May each generation of Americans be better off than their parents!!!
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#274316 - 11/03/04 07:15 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
kjackson Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 557
Loc: Port Townend, WA
There are some good points raised here. Dave's right in that Bush needs to make the effort to get Democrats involved in his projects, but it's imperative that Democrats participate, not blow off opportunities that arise just because the project is suggested by a Republican.

One thing Bush needs to do is a better job of communicating his ideas. He's not eloquent, and that may be part of the problem, but some of his ideas are worthwhile and commonsense solutions, yet they've been burned by bad public relations, bad press, and I think, partisan bickering. For instance, his "relaxation" of EPA rules on pesticides-- something that was discussed on this forum. The spin given by the press and his environmental opponents was that the actions were a strike against the environment.

However, and it's a big however, the rules that were rescinded were so cumbersome to follow that the EPA hadn't been using them for something like 12 years. It makes sense to do away with those and find something that will work and will do the job of protecting the environment.

I've seen other examples of people thinking some of the same old fairy tales about roadless areas. This is an area I have a background in, and what Bush proposed was nothing like the 'cut and slash' predictions I've seen posted recently.

Does this mean that I think the Bush administration should be given a pass-go card on the environment? Of course not-- but it does mean that I think it's necessary to keep an open mind. Too many people have closed minds and don't think for themselves. Too many people react first without thinking things through. Too many people think that the only way to save something is to lock it up. In this day and age, that's a sure way to lose -- a lot of things.

My $.02,

Keith

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#274317 - 11/03/04 07:21 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Originally posted by BroodBuster:
May each generation of Americans be better off than their parents!!!
Let me introduce you to the national deficit.

By the way, here we go:
White House wants debt ceiling raised.
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#274318 - 11/03/04 07:26 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
I guess that means you are out on the inclusiveness issue eh harley? \:D
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#274319 - 11/03/04 07:36 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
kjackson Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 557
Loc: Port Townend, WA
BB-- FYI: Unless things have changed in the last eight years, there is no death tax on inheritances under $250K in Washington state.

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#274320 - 11/03/04 08:00 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
I do think we need to try hard to stop the kind of fanatical hatred we see from some on both sides of the spectrum. I plan to cut Bush all the slack he earns on environmental issues. That said, there have been several instances of his administration showing little concern for our salmon, Columbia River draw downs, a salmon recovery plan the courts have found to be woefully inadequate, attempts to loosen dam relicensing rules, etc. etc. We need to hold all politicians feet to the fire when they fail to protect our resources. In case you may think my complaints are based solely on my political leaning I was quick to criticize Clinton, in my columns, on several occasions when his administration voted against our salmon and steelhead.

I don't think our fish have a political affiliation and they need all the help they can get. The RFA is a strong bipartisan voice for the fish and the fishermen. Check them out.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

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#274321 - 11/03/04 08:24 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
Go Harley-
I wouldn't fret about the debt too much. It's like .05% of the GDP. France, by the way, has already broken the new EU Constitution by carrying a National debt of over 3%. I on the other hand, with a mortgage, car payment and credit cards am carrying close to a 40% debt against my annual income! Now that hurts!

Keith-
Your absalutely correct about Bush's lack of communication. I think he would do himself a favor by not being so secretive all the time. It's hard to complain about the media coverage when you never talk to them.

The death tax needs to go away completely. Have you seen a $255 K home lately. Not much there. That is not wealth. If someones father (my old carpooler to be exact) was smart enough to invest $30k on a waterfront home in the '50s and that home is worth 2.5 million 40 years later his family should be able to keep it all! Every last stinking dime!!! My friend was paying taxes that whole time (the taxes ended up being more than the original mortgage) and therefor the Govt. should not be able to tax it twice, especially when that is all the wealth he was able to leave his 4 children!!! The death tax is evil evil evil.......That is how the rich get richer (with their lawyers hiding everything) and the poor stay poor (with the Govt. stealing everything).
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#274322 - 11/03/04 09:58 PM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
kjackson Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 557
Loc: Port Townend, WA
BB-- You're right-- I'd forgotten how little $250K buys in the way of a house-- especially in your neck of the woods. Why I remember when--ooops, starting to sound like Granpa there..

Dave-- I concur that fish don't care whether you're Republican or Democrat. I also think we must hold politicians' feet to the fire on fisheries issues and environmental issues. However, there is a lot of mis-information floating around, some of which is supported by folks whose real agenda seems to be to lock things up as a way of "saving" them (and some undoubtedly from folks who would like unfettered access).

Sometimes locking up resources (fish, timber, wilderness or what have you) is a good idea, and sometimes it does more harm than good. Each case or each issue needs to be looked at without partisan spin from one side or the other--end of rant.

I still have yet to check into the RFA, but that is on my short list. A strong bipartisan organization can do wonders for sportfishing and fish restoration in the Northwest. We only have to look at the Coastal Conservation Association in the Gulf of Mexico and what they accomplished with the inshore netting ban or the UAC/UASC successful efforts to stop bottom trawling in California as good examples.

My $.02,

Keith

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#274323 - 11/04/04 10:22 AM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Snake Pliskin Offline
Bead

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 1202
Loc: Duvall
Well said David. I'm moving on.....putting new line on my reels for Bubba Chum and his brother Brutus.
_________________________
Bless our troops.

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#274324 - 11/04/04 11:08 AM Re: What Bush Should Do Now
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
IMHO Expecting to change the way we manage fish and not changing the way we live will not work. If we demand that builders build in a fish friendly manner, smaller more eco with alternative materials they will do it. If we redesign our life to use less resources leave a smaller foot print and vote fish friendly with our $$ the business and the policies will follow. Right now we are saying one thing and doing another. Business and Govt do not do things against the majority they dissapear if they do.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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