Salmo,

"Wrong again. Single mothers may be divorced OR widowed, and it may very well NOT be their fault"

Your agreement with this statement shows how far men have fallen. Specifically in the NW. So lets add psuedo male to your list . The above statement is clearly the view of the feminist and their apologists.. It's a sexist statement that gives men all the power and women no responsiblity in the choices in their lives and relationships. Plainly that men are evil monsters that victimize women and women are not smart enough and must accept that role in life. Even sadder is the fact that so called enlightened men repeat such BS. Woman have at least 50% of the responsibility for their relationships good or bad. If a woman finds her self a single mom for any reason she has the ability to rise above it and prosper. It's well documented and well studied.

So Aunty:

You are trying to tell us that the woman in the shelter doesn't deserve some blame for choosing a bad partner? Some how that seems a little short sighted to me. How many girls out there will only date the bad boy? Seems to me that is the start of the of the road to the shelter.


As far as the research goes why don't one of you post some links supporting your positions. Seems like interesting reading.

TK,

Now you’re truly pathetic. Sure, single motherhood is as preventable as AIDS. Wouldn’t we like to see everyone make better decisions to begin with? However, as omnipotent as you act like you believe you are, you already know that the only people who do not make mistakes (TK excepted, no doubt) are those who do nothing.

Living a human life and avoiding all mistakes are mutually exclusive. While it would be nice if more women were more discriminating (to the woe of the inadequate males they befriend), under the best of probable circumstances, some women will make the wrong decision. Some men are good at deceit, and a woman stuck with such a guy makes the “better decision” when she finally decides to leave him. Does such a woman bear the entire burden of fault? It appears that you’re saying she does. If so, that strikes me as pathetic, but not surprising in regards to you.

Each party bears a share of responsibility, but the outcome isn’t necessarily a 50:50 split. Every person controls him or her self only. Even you cannot control the choices others make or the path they choose to follow. Coupled with the fact that people do change, most relationships become something different than they once were. The desired outcome is that they would improve, but that isn’t always the case, and the one partner isn’t necessarily the cause for the choice made by the other, and isn’t able to force the desired path on the other. In those cases, a split is the best outcome, and fault is pretty irrelevant, benefitting neither party.

So if any woman who finds herself a single mom can rise above it and prosper, why don’t you share that recipe - that’s so well studied and documented - with the thousands of people who could no doubt make good use of it?

Usually you’re pretty entertaining as a pompous a$$, but this one was pretty low, even for you. Nonetheless, I hope your turkey turns out perfect and you have a happy Thanksgiving.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Aunty have I told you latly that I love you

Salmo,

lot of words there for saying nothing. Libs hate to be held personally responsible and so it goes they do not hold others responsible. It's the reason the divorce rate is over 50%. Add this topic to your list of must reads along with the middle east because you are clueless.
Anything that is a choice is preventable.

Aunty:

I didn't balme the women first, or more, nor did I defend the things that happened to those other women. I simply said that if you choose a bad partner then sometimes bad things happen, and you deserve SOME of the blame.

Vic,

Women have been getting away with blaming men for everything for so long it is habitual at this point. They do not even see that they are degrading their own sex in the process.

Aunty:

Where did I say that it is OK to abuse kids? Where did I say we should let those guys off the hook? Why is the woman who chooses a bad partner or who chooses to stay in a bad relationship teflon? Choosing to stay in an abusive rlationship is bad for kids too...

Don't get me wrong... In my opinion there is no reason for a man to hit a woman or child. If I had knowledge of a situation where a friend or family member was involved on either side, I wouldn't allow it to continue.

FYI: I am not trying to be abrasive, or stir the pot. I genuinely find this interesting, and appreciate the exchange of ideas.

TK,

Well look who's calling who clueless! You said,
"Anything that is a choice is preventable." That will be true just as soon as certainty is a given. No person can know, with absolute certainty, that the person they are considering marrying will not turn into an abusive or intolerable partner. Therefore, the only way to prevent making a wrong choice is to choose to do nothing. As I said in my previous post, the only people who don't make mistakes are those who do nothing. That includes you, but you're so self rightous that it doesn't seem likely you'd ever be aware of it.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

"No person can know, with absolute certainty, that the person they are considering marrying will not turn into an abusive or intolerable partner." Maybe not 100% but there are ways to reduce the chances significantly. One thing any seasoned crime investigator will tell you is application of Occams Razor solves in the high 90% of most cases. It is true for other areas of life as well. I am sure you are familiar with it.

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

Wow, this one is pretty deep. Unfortunately, there is not a "one size fits all" cause or solution to the "victim paradigm here." We would all like to have nice, concise reason as to why violence occurs generically in families, but studies regarding "why" do not come to a finite societal cause or genetic disposition.

Tk, Achem's razor is used as an exercize in logic, and by no means it is used by anybody to determine any kind of an absolute for anything. Used to have alot of fun with it in collage.

BW,

It tells us that the simplest answer is generally correct and should be looked at before more complicated theories. In this example individual choices leading to a predictable outcome. Crime investigasstors will also tell you that victims act like victims and regression analysis models can be used to develop psychological profiles of potential abuse victims as much as they can identify abusers. BTW I see many more women abusing men in my daily life than I see the classic male abusers. One is more generally accepted than the other in our society.

Actually is says

" All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the best."

Just a little different from what you said. As far as criminal investigators are concered it could only be used to give them some sort of direction to persue.

An example

TK is an intellect of almost Freudian magnitude. Able to solve all the countries ill's before lunch.

OR

It's all so much BS.. :p

Busted

Aunty:

"except for the dirtbags like the above who prefer never to take responsibility but instead, blame others."

If you were refering to me then that is a pretty bold statement considering you don't know me. I am not sure how this got personal. For my part I have tried to be respectful of your views and offer another side. I thought the whole idea of this forum was to exchange ideas and hopefuly learn from each other.

All the prerequisites exist for abuse to take place before the abuser is even known. The victim just needs to make the choice of abusers. The variables are independant of sex. However sex changes the order of the varaibles. Much like substance abuse,obesity etc.our society accepts symptoms as cause rather than the cause itself. There is more money to be made treating symptoms.

Glad to know I haven't reached dirtbag status.

I will say the women that I know, who have been in abusive realtionships, have been in more than one (I can think of 2 that I know). I know it isn't very scientific, but in my mind it seems to back up the choice thing.

There are some simple tests one can take that are predictors of abuse in relationships. It's easier to blame it on someone else or give it a medical name than to accept responsibilty for the reasons we make choices in life and deal with it proactively. Your companies insurance policy is more likely to pay a larger ammount for any treatment if the condition is given a name other than choice. You are then free to repeat the behavior as society and then industry have accepted financial responsibility for your choices. The majority of abuse cases involve susbstance abuse again if you subscribe to the ADA it's a disease and not a choice so the resposibility is not yours. The whole system is geared around avoiding responsibility. Don't get me started on ADD, ADHD and similar

------------------------------------------------------------

Vic,

I'd bet you a G Loomis rod that those two women you know who have been in more than one abusive relationships both grew up in a household with either a non-existant father/positive male role model or had a dysfunctional relationship with the one who was there.