For all of you who think America can learn a thing or two from Europe take a look at this!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004532921,00.html

I find this appalling. One trait of socialism is that it pits one class of people against another. Socialism creates class envy which creates hate. I think those people need to spend an evening at a Mariner game where we cheer Griffey, Edgar, Buhner and Ichiro because they play the game better than you and I can. We don't give a damn where they came from or who their father was!!! That is a uniquely American phenomenon.

With all the bickering between left and right going on lately I think we need to understand that we are sharing camp 5 together. We may not have reached the summet yet, and the hardest part may yet be in front of us but at least we are not arguing over where to take a crap at base camp like the rest of the World.

I don't want to sound like an alarmist, and I hope I'm wrong, but it does not seem to me that Europeans have learned anything from history. They hate Jews. They hate Muslims. They hate Catholics. And they hate America. I don't mean to paint a wide brush over all Europeans but I don't see that their leaders believe that hate and evil exists. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a very bright future for our friends east of the pond.

Please excuse the rant but nothing on Earth p!ssis me off more than racist crap like this!!!

So I'm off to Hec Ed to root for Nate flying through the paint and Mike Jensen hitting threes and I don't give a damn what ethnicity they are or who their father is........God Bless America.

God Bless the Marines!!!

So you are going to take an incident like this, which by all means was absolutely appalling, and then say we have nothing to learn from european countries, that they hate Jews, Catholics, Muslims and Americans based on that story? Somehow this article proves we are better or more advanced then europe? A touch on the short sided don't you think?

I hope there is not someone in Europe looking at the stories of Ray Caruth, Jason Williams, Ray Lewis, Kobe Bryant and... and... and making judgements that Americans are rapists and killers. Please it would be just as naive as passing judgement on all of Europe because there were some knuckleheads in the stands in Madrid.

It also discounts the efforts of 90% of european FA's (football associations) to stamp rascism out of european football. This behavior is not prevalent throughout europe but does rear it's ugly head, usually at international games for some reason.

Sport is a SMALL reflection of society, not a mirror image!

By the way, I watched the game and it was surreal. I had never seen any sporting event so effected by the fans before in my life. You could see the English players in shock. Half way through the game I was hoping the English FA would just pull the team of the pitch.

wailuku,
I hope your right.

I often read the European papers and I may not be getting the whole story. There just seems to be a trend over there. From the murder of a film director in the Netherlands to attacks on mosques in France and increasing anti simetic acts all over the place I just don't think they are heading in the right direction. I listen to their leaders and there is always an excuse for such things and no resolve to fix anything or confront problems. Did those clowns get thrown in jail for disturbing the peace or did they toast each other at the local pub and receive pats on the back? I would assume if I where to visit I wouldn't see these acts on every street or even ever but........had that happened in any staduim in America those clowns would still be in the hospital. These idiots should be held accountable but I beleave there will be sanctions against the Spanish football team which would be totally misplaced justice. It would, however, make the Europeans feel good!

The English team should have pulled their team off the field just like Lou did in NY that first postseason. I suppose that is what dismays me the most. There seems to be a mindset over there that someone else will take a stand. I wonder where that mindset comes from?

I hope I am mis-judging things from way over here!

I hope your right!

I believe FIFA is limited in what sanctions they can take on actions like these. There are no specific rules in place to address verbally abusive fans however it is the expectation of many that they will take action based on rules written about racially abusive signs or banners. The sanctions against those infractions will be limited to restricting the Spanish teams next international matches to be played behind closed doors. This approach has proven effective as it puts the onis on the individual countries FAs to address rascism.

In terms of racism in sport we need look no further than our own country for racism in sport. Do you know the origins of the term Redskin? How do you think native americans feel about 60,000 Atlanta Brave fans doing the tomahawk chop or the 80,000 Florida State fans chanting an "Indian chant"?

I personally do not know if I were native american if I would be offended, I'd like to think that I am not that uptight but I am not native american, therefore I have to respect native americans that are offended and call it rascism. Not quite as overt as the Spanish fans but racism none the less.

WOW!

Could the timing of this thread be any more ironic?

Here is one thing we could learn from europeans. The fans in the NBA have far to easy an access to the playing surface and the players. In europe they have built barricades to prevent this, not that I necessarily think that should or will happen in the NBA but there is one thing that should come from this. In English Football stadiums have scores of video cameras on the fans themselves. They have an entire security force monitoring cameras and can pick out fans that throw coins and other projectiles. Fans are banned permanently from games and prosecuted to the extent of their laws when caught.

The most effective change in English football in terms of fan violence was the responsible fans themselves taking responsibility for the situation. There are tons of storys of fans throwing objects at the opposing team only to have their own peers kick the crap out of them for being stupid. Where were the responsible Piston fans to take care of the a-hole who threw the beer on Artest?

I seriously hope no europeans were watching this game and generalizing about the American populace! What an ugly ugly sight that game was...

How much money is it going to cost Jermaine Oneal for absolutely flooring that dumbass that came down on the floor?

"One trait of socialism is that it pits one class of people against another. Socialism creates class envy which creates hate."

Not entirely true. You're thinking more about a caste system, I believe. The meaning of socialism been skewed here in the US and has become a misnomer for anything we perceive as "bad."

The DoD has had socialized health and dental care for years and it seems to work fine. I doubt the amputees returning from Iraq are bithing about getting free protestics and health care for the rest of their lives.

As far as class envy and hate, I don't think you need look any further than your own backyard. The poor have a lot of envy for the rich right here. And hate? Go check out the skinheads in Idaho. Or the Klan in the south.

Ron Artest will have no money left after the old white dude he was pounding on in the stands ( who appeared to have done nothing other than be in the stands ) gets done with him... Guess he has time off now to go ahead and promote his " rap" CD like he wanted...

On another note... skin heads got kicked out of Idaho several years ago. They lost their compound near Hayden lake because they shot at some people who were lost and got sued over it. The leader, Richard Butler lost everything he had over it. Same with super right winger Bo- Gritz... and his " almost heaven " compound.. total bust....

Like I said I may be missing something from being way over here but these types of acts seem to be more tolorated in Europe. I have seen few followups to the above story about any sanctions or arrests (although I do see lots of stories on racial tensions and they're not all in the sports page). Everybody seems to think the authorities need to fix it. Even the French player who was the target of the original racial tirade from the Spain coach (who's still coaching) had this to say, “These are the sort of questions we need to put to the people in power. We can talk all day about this matter but what is actually happening? Nothing.”

The NBA situation proves my point. We do not tolorate such behavior in America and the penelties where handed out very swiftly. This is a little bit different situation in that racial hatred does not seem to be the cause but bad behavior is bad behavior. Here we play it over and over and over and express our outrage demanding action. Attendance at NBA games will go down because of this incident. Commisioner Stern has a tough job ahead of him restoring fan trust. He knows that he must act because the fans demand it. I just don't see that coming out of Europe. Attendance will not decrease at Football matches (I think it's a match?). In fact I am afriad that this behavior will only move from stadium to stadium much like the wave did here!

I hope I'm wrong!

The time delay to action is problem with the world governing body FIFA hence the delay. If this happened in one of the leagues I.E. La Liga, EPL, Bundesliga etc.. you would see action taken a lot swifter just like in the NBA. Because the world governing body enforces matches like this there should be no surprise it is taking forever.

One element to consider in the Soccer match in question is that the game was not a high profile game drastically reducing the cost of the tickets for the game bringing a different element of fan. With this past weekends game between Real Madrid and Barcelona being the big match of the week in Madrid, the international friendly with England took a backseat in terms of interest. Imagine what kind of yahoos would have been at the NBA game if tickets were 1/10 the price?

It'd be like fishing the cowlitz I'd imagine....

Some good points on this.

One things forsure, I've moved to Ireland 2 years ago from Seattle and the shiz nit is the same all over the world. I think it shows alot more over here though. The EU is now 25 countries, that's alot of different culutres trying to work together. No excuse for Spain, FIFA get on with it.

soccer nerds

:p