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#275400 - 12/09/04 07:27 PM Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
NEW YORK Dec 9, 2004 — A British philosophy professor who has been a leading champion of atheism for more than a half-century has changed his mind. He now believes in God more or less based on scientific evidence, and says so on a video released Thursday.

At age 81, after decades of insisting belief is a mistake, Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

Flew said he's best labeled a deist like Thomas Jefferson, whose God was not actively involved in people's lives.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."


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Flew first made his mark with the 1950 article "Theology and Falsification," based on a paper for the Socratic Club, a weekly Oxford religious forum led by writer and Christian thinker C.S. Lewis.

Over the years, Flew proclaimed the lack of evidence for God while teaching at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele, and Reading universities in Britain, in visits to numerous U.S. and Canadian campuses and in books, articles, lectures and debates.

There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved," Flew says in the new video, "Has Science Discovered God?"

The video draws from a New York discussion last May organized by author Roy Abraham Varghese's Institute for Metascientific Research in Garland, Texas. Participants were Flew; Varghese; Israeli physicist Gerald Schroeder, an Orthodox Jew; and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane of Scotland's University of St. Andrews.

The first hint of Flew's turn was a letter to the August-September issue of Britain's Philosophy Now magazine. "It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism," he wrote.

The letter commended arguments in Schroeder's "The Hidden Face of God" and "The Wonder of the World" by Varghese, an Eastern Rite Catholic layman.

This week, Flew finished writing the first formal account of his new outlook for the introduction to a new edition of his "God and Philosophy," scheduled for release next year by Prometheus Press.

Prometheus specializes in skeptical thought, but if his belief upsets people, well "that's too bad," Flew said. "My whole life has been guided by the principle of Plato's Socrates: Follow the evidence, wherever it leads."

Last week, Richard Carrier, a writer and Columbia University graduate student, posted new material based on correspondence with Flew on the atheistic http://www.infidels.org Web page. Carrier assured atheists that Flew accepts only a "minimal God" and believes in no afterlife.

Flew's "name and stature are big. Whenever you hear people talk about atheists, Flew always comes up," Carrier said. Still, when it comes to Flew's reversal, "apart from curiosity, I don't think it's like a big deal."

Flew told The Associated Press his current ideas have some similarity with American "intelligent design" theorists, who see evidence for a guiding force in the construction of the universe. He accepts Darwinian evolution but doubts it can explain the ultimate origins of life.

A Methodist minister's son, Flew became an atheist at 15.

Early in his career, he argued that no conceivable events could constitute proof against God for believers, so skeptics were right to wonder whether the concept of God meant anything at all.

Another landmark was his 1984 "The Presumption of Atheism," playing off the presumption of innocence in criminal law. Flew said the debate over God must begin by presuming atheism, putting the burden of proof on those arguing that God exists.


On the Net:

Varghese page:

Infidels on Flew:


Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#275401 - 12/09/04 07:30 PM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
"Flew"

Man, the jokes are endless...

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#275403 - 12/09/04 07:52 PM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
Name one war where troops got EVERYTHING they needed\wanted?

Remember when the tanks ran out of gas during WWII? Do you think Patton cried to the media??


PS - the whole amour thing is old news. Not that it isn't important. I think Rumsfeild should be doing all he can to speed up production and distribution if he isn't already. The only reason the media is flying with this story is because they want to give Rummy the collective middle finger. Do you really think these liberal media types care about the troops more than their own leaders?? Well, knowing some of you, you probably do think that...

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#275405 - 12/09/04 08:07 PM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
I never mentioned the reporter. Leave it to you to leave out the FACTS for your own agenda....

I said the "liberal media" is running with the story just to slam Rumsfeild.

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#275407 - 12/09/04 11:24 PM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Originally posted by PhishPhreak:
Name one war where troops got EVERYTHING they needed\wanted?
Oh, that makes it okay then. Sorry for caring.

:rolleyes:
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#275408 - 12/10/04 01:08 AM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2449
Loc: Portland
the story didn't mention the bible.

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian"

DUH!
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#275409 - 12/10/04 11:30 AM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
PhishPhreak Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/19/01
Posts: 1066
Loc: North Bend, WA
"I guess you need to keep up to date on all the threads then, since you OBVIOUSLY missed something posted in one of the others."

I'm sure you are right. I guess I just need to get a REAL life and spend more time in all the other threads so I can be as up to date as you.

GH: I never said it was not important and something we shouldn't care about. I was just pointing out that this is old news and the only new story is the 'opportunity' to bash Rumsfeild. If anyone is really holding back from our troops, then that person(s) should be held personally accountable for any related deaths\injuries - but I just don't see any credible evidence of that yet.

H20: Give the old man a little more time. It took him this long to realize there is a God. It won't be long now before he realizes WHO that God is. Chances are, at his age, he'll be meeting Him face to face real soon...

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#275411 - 12/10/04 07:42 PM Re: Whooa doggy a big fish changes teams
FlyingFish Offline
Parr

Registered: 04/30/04
Posts: 41
Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:
Looks like GW is showing the subject a little support as well. I guess the media is helping troops get what they need, since it was known a long time ago but only now becoming so urgent because of media attention. Oh the horror! The press may actually save some lives.

Another bad call by PP. :rolleyes:
I am just wondering how you can become so up in arms over this lack in equipment, yet have voted for someone who has voted to cut defense spending every opportunity he had.

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