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#334830 - 02/22/07 06:37 AM What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish
Bill G Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Buckley Wa.
I was looking at back posts on W. L. C. dated 2/17 by Sully.
He said there was a bass tournament on Sammamish with lots of fish caught and a lot were killed.
Is this true? What really happened?
What club was it?
Questions form the uninformed.
Bill

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#334832 - 02/22/07 07:42 AM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Bill G]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Bill -
Need to remember the bass - both largemouth and smallmouth , hve a closed air bladder much like that found in rockfish. When they are subject to pressure changes - brought from depth; the bladder expanded and the fish can not vent the gases.

As a result the expanded bladder puts pressure on the fish's organs and the stretching of the tissues can cause hemorphaging both of which cause mortalities.

This time of the year smallmouth tend to still be in their deep water winter haunts and are vulunerable to problems when brought from the depth. With the depth changes typical this time of year it seems that initially the fish's body/tissues are strong enough to hlod the bladder in place but after a few minutes (less than 5) the tissue weaken, bladder expands and the fish has problems.

While it is rare for the bladder to expand to the point that it casues the fish's bladder to stick out its mouth as with rockfish it is pretty common to see fish brought from say 40 feet and placed in a live well to be found swimming upside down after a few minutes - see the same thing with perch in the fall when brought from some depth. Clearly the fish are being stressed; of course that isn't a problem if the fish are being kept for the table but may not be so good if the idea is to release the fish alive for another day.

While the overall mortality from the deep water tournaments are not much of an issue to the bass population as a whole it probably does reduce the overall age of the population. Certainly those anglers that do fish deep should be aware that they are probably killing some fish and likley have as much impact as the anglers that kill some fish for the table.

I for one have to question the wisdom of having these early season tournaments when the best chance for a winning weight comes from fishing deep. This is especially true if the idea is to have minimal impacts on the fish. In fact I will not fish deep water for bass and limit my fishing to less than 30 feet - yes that means I will not be a top rod but I feel I can comfortably release the fish I catch and know that a large portion will be available for another day for another angler or myself.

Tight lines
Curt

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#334838 - 02/22/07 09:52 AM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Smalma]
skeeter bassin Offline
Fry

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 34
Loc: Bonney Lake
Well put Smalma. There are a few things that every trny fisherman should do if they plan to fish the early season tournaments. Every trny angler I know does a pre-season inventory of their gear to make sure everything is still in good working condition. Part of that inventory has to include checking their fizz kit and being absolutely positive it is still in good working condition. Along with that every angler has to be proficient in the use of their kit. There are 2 ways of doing this, the newest and most accepted way now being to go through the mouth and not through the side of the fish. Properly doing this will greatly increase the survival rate. Along with this their are additives that can be placed in the livewell which will help to calm the fish and reduce stress.

That trny had 7 dead fish brought in out of 51 total fish caught. That is an extremely high number. By Washington State guidelines if it was a 2 day tournament the 2nd day would not have been run. Any fish mortality over 10% during a tournament is cause for the tournament to automatically be suspended until the problem causing the mortality can be corrected. If it can not be corrected the remaining tournament will be cancelled.

I am sure the hosting club is taking this all into account, this was their first time running a tournament this early in the year.

Tight lines all

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#334859 - 02/22/07 11:35 AM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: skeeter bassin]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Remember those dead fish are just those that died at the site. Additional delayed mortalities can be expected. Mortalities can also be an issue with the fish not bought to the weigh-in - either immediately released or "culled" during the day.

Yes, "Fizzing" is one of the methods used to deflate "bloated" fish. For those not familar with the method the gas is relieved by puncturing the air bladder with sharp object. The mostly commonly used (best?) tool has been a hollow needle. The idea is to poke a hole in the bladder to relieve the gases. Several things to be careful with this mehtod.

One is that you are stick the insides wtih a foreign object so infections can be an issue - be sure that the needle is sterile (sterilize before treating every fish).

There is a high potential for hitting critical organs if not done with care and knowledge. Approaching through the mouth is a way to avoid some of that potential hit critical organs though of course you are puncturing the esophagus. The idea here is that as the bladder expands it will push the other organs out of the way. Of course for that to be the case the bladder will have expanded and there is potential for some damage to have occurred prior to the "fizzing".

In addition to the damage done by the expanded bladder there is also the issue of gas bubbles forming in the blood of the fish (much like the bends for divers). "Fizzing" the fish will not address that problem and the deeper the fish caught the more likey there will a problem with bubbles in the blood. To give you an idea the role of the depth. Feather and Knable in 1983 subject largemouth bass to pressure changes in the lab and found that a change in pressue equavalent to bring the fish to the surface from 30 feet resulted in a 25% mortality while a change equavalent to bring the fish to the surface from 50 feet resulted in 42% mortality.

For fish with expanded bladders several alternate methods of treatment other than "fizzing" has been developed all of which are generally preferred. However each requires returning the fish immediately to the depths thus de-pressurize the fish. Of course doing so negates holding the fish in live wells and having weight-ins.

This issue is also more than just a "tournament issue". Some every day practices that anglers often do routinely also may result in additional mortalities of such fish. Holding fish for later pictures or weighting, hold caught fish until done fishing a spot, etc can be a negative for the released fish.

As always successful catch and release of any fish requires anglers be informed of the issues. Knowledge of such techniques and problems and being aware of potential trade offs are key to the successful practice of CnR.

Tight lines
Curt

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#334864 - 02/22/07 11:49 AM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Smalma]
Addicted Offline
Rico Suave

Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 2567
Loc: Whidbey Island
wow, now that is some info.
_________________________
Have pole, will fish.

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#335430 - 02/25/07 10:02 PM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Addicted]
Mike C Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1373
Loc: Redmond
OK, so if I get an itch to go fish Sammamish on Tuesday (and I promise I'll fish less than 30 ft deep) what tactics would you recommend? All my bassing has been focusing on fishing shoreline structure and docks, this is a different approach for me to try. Thanks!
_________________________
Mike, Editor
www.washingtonlakes.com "Featuring readers lake and saltwater reports."

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#335492 - 02/26/07 08:21 AM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Mike C]
skeeter bassin Offline
Fry

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 34
Loc: Bonney Lake
This time of year the best approach is drop shotting and dragging jigs or grubs on the bottom. Stay with natural colors. Fishing deep this time of year is typically not a problem as long as the fish are released immediately. Use your graph and look for rock piles near drops or weed edges. Yes, the weed edges are starting to show. If your lucky enough to find bait schools put a suspending jerk bait in there and work it slow. When I say slow, I mean when you think you are fishing slow, slow it down even more. Most strikes will come while the bait is suspended and not moving at all. Hope this helps.

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#335891 - 02/27/07 11:07 PM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: skeeter bassin]
Bill G Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 129
Loc: Buckley Wa.
You guys are the greatest. Ask and ye shall receive.
Bill

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#337180 - 03/04/07 08:15 PM Re: What about dead fish at a tournament on Sammamish [Re: Bill G]
Daniel T Offline
Fry

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 37
Loc: Puyallup
evergreen bass club held the event. http://www.evergreenbassclub.com/ If you look at the results to can see all the fish caught and the ones that didnt make it.
_________________________
Fishing Bass


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