ChumMan : So far your only bad is the use of pejorative terms on those with whom you disagree.

You might change more minds with more facts and less insults.

Yeah Chum Man, what's your prob with fly fishermen? Are you manual dexterity challenged or something?

The wild steelhead issue has become a pretty simple one if you look at a little history. I've been steelheading over 35 years. When I began, there were harvestable wild steelhead in 160 or more WA rivers, according to the state. Now it's down to 10 or 12 on the OP, and several of those aren't meeting escapement on a consistent basis. Not killing wild steelhead costs me nothing, and maybe helps a run meet its escapement goal that otherwise might not.

Sound science is nothing more than the systematic advancement of human knowledge. There's no mystery. What science supports the idea that killing wild steelhead is good management?

Don't know what your fly fishing bias is about, but FYI, the NF Stilly became the state's first fly fishing only river in 1940. Fly fishermen regularly killed the wild steelhead they caught there into the 1980s. And that was probably for too long, as the population crashed in the late 1960s and early 70s, mainly for habitat reasons I believe. The upshot is that fly fishermen weren't so far in the lead of other gear types as far as recognizing the benefits of not killing wild steelhead.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g., I could go check the regs, but I'm lazy and they are not here with me. Concerning the N. Fork Stilly.....(forgive me if I bobble this, it's been a long time since I fished it)...was a fly fishing only water in the summer season only as I recall. It certainly may have changed, but it seems to me I remember fishing it a few times in the Winter for steelhead, but with conventional gear. Am I mistaken?

I let them all go, heck, I even throw back good hatchery fish once in a while if I don't feel like taking it home. As long as it is "legal" people are going to kill them. Ethical, well you know one man's ceiling is another man's floor. The rules need to be changed.

For some preverse reason decided to check this discussion - got to love when folks shoot from their hips. Why do folks believe so many myths?

Sol Duc -
Let's how does a 1 wild fish per day and 5 per year from a coastal region that has been determined to have healthy populations sound?

That would be the Oregon Coast and wild (un-clipped) steelhead are legal to harvest on the Checto, Elk, North Umapqua, main Umaqau, Rogue, Sixes and a couple smaller streams under the above regulations. Sound familar?

BTW - Do so many of you feel that there should be no harvest of wild steelhead because the resource is in trouble or that releasing wild fish has the potential of inceasing fishing opportunity?

If you feel the resource is in trouble I would suggest that you serious consider your impact on the resource as you catch and release dozens of fish a year. If one truly believed that was the case concern anglers would be limiting the wild fish catches (say less than 10/year).

Tight lines
Curt

I'd like to know how many times this question has been brought up on the board...

Come on TBJ, I was *really* hoping this was an April Fools Joke. I really don't want to hear of any wild fish being whacked, let alone 2 bigguns.

But, I'm sadly learning that it's probably not a joke.

Damn. Now I'm bummed.

How many of you are actually catching and releasing dozens (12,24,36) wild steelhead per year??? I know it's some, but I bet the majority of recreational fisherman only catch a few. Maybe that just makes me feel better about my steelhead inabilities. I would still prefer if the thousands of these fisherman release that one fish, instead of killing it. I'm no math genius, but 1000's of fisherman releasing that one fish, Um..How many fish still in the system is that??

Each year, I may catch a few wild steelhead and they will always be released, which I can thank this site primarily for molding that view early in my steelheading adventures.

Geez...I ramble on the Vicadin and Hefeweizen combo. Kalama report from today still to come

On the rivers I fish here in Oregon you can keep 1 wild fish per day but only 5 per year, I know of no rivers that are 1 a year.

This will probably kill the thread, sorry about that, just a warning of what is to come.

I am probably going to go to the big no no land with this one, but here goes.

Ladies and Gentlemen we are not the only folks using this wild steelhead resourse, and maybe it is time that the other folks stepped up to the plate and pitched in. There is no question in my mind that all the fishing done by sportsmen in these rivers cannot even come close to the damage done by the nets. Would nt it be nice if we all layed off for a few years to see what the rivers could really produce. I am positive that wdfg surely does not know. I would not want to affect someones religion so I guess I would go along with cerimonial fishing for tribal needs. Maybe the sportsmen could also fish for say two weeks C/R only. I guess I would not claim lost opporitunity for being flooded out. Of course this whole subject should be revisited in say five years to access levels of stock and determine maybe how many fish should be taken to leave the resorce in super shape.

Since we could never get the tribal fishermen/netters to go along with this I guess it is just a beautiful dream eh. My 2 cents wasted.

Slab,

Yeah, that's fly only during the summer season, not the winter. Sorry about my lack of clarity.

Sg

You 10% of the anglers that catch 90% of the fish should hang up your rods for good. Maybe then I can catch a steelhead as it seems like years since I have.

First I would like agreeing with Mr. Vedder. This is a forum to express our opinions in a civil manner and I apologize for the comments of hatred that I expressed earlier. That said, let me finish, well maybe not finish seeing as how it is almost 1:30 am and I just got home. Dave I appreciate your comments, we may have a difference of opinion but that does not mean that I have any hatred of any sort towards you or any one else based on their opinions.
As far as hatchery reform is concerned I think we as fishermen and as people who do truly care for our Wild salmonid populations need to not just to talk about reform but to some how purposes and take action in some way or another to actually do something that will help out in our current wild salmon/steelhead populations. I am sure that you all have different opinions on what should be done to help save the wild fish that we currently have left and this is for an up coming post, not this one. This however is a different topic that I would love to start so that we as a whole can actually help the fish as oppose to argue whether it is right to harvest the ones that we currently have or to let them go. I hope to finish this post tomorrow seeing as how it is now bed time, good night and happy fishing to all.

and that's supposed to be an insult?

and who are you again?

A year or so ago I did an analysis of the catch of wild steelhead in this state (it may still be in the archives of this or other boards). This was before we went to the 1 steelhead retention per year on the 12 or 13 streams that allow that. The study was based on numbers attained from the NWIFC (Northwest Indian Fishing Commission) and WDFW. Now, I recognize that there may be some who contend that one or the other of those agencies have bogus numbers. My contention is that they likely both have bogus numbers and that the real catch of wild steelhead is higher by both tribal and sportsmen. What I found out is that the sportsmen had a significantly higher catch (and kill) of wild steelhead than did the tribes in virtualy every year that I looked at. The fundamental issue is that we (as sportsmen) look at our individual effort and catch, and then extrapolate that against the tribal nets. Reality - we must look at ourselves as a group, and when we do that, we find that there are thousands of wild steelhead killed every year by us (at least in the years that I studied). Once again, in the interest of fairness, I believe that the last year I studied was 2004 (the last year that I found figures from both sides.

Something to think about.

Why Kill um????.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

That's straight up A number one crap, Aunty...if you care about a certain species, then you aren't allowed to fish or hunt for it, and you have to demand that everyone else stop fishing and hunting for it, too?

Does that work the other way...every species that you go out and trap or fish for... shrimp, salmon, and especially sturgeon...since you not only not demand that everyone stop, but you target them, too, does that mean you don't care about the welfare of those species?

Fish on...

Todd

So you only care about the resource when it's in trouble (and aren't fishing), and if it's not in trouble, then you fish for it (and by implication, don't care about it now?).

You really need to get your attitude straightened out...your recent elevation of CCA to diety-ship has turned you into a militant Anti-M.

Fish on...

Todd

That's funny Todd, seeing how that is EXACTLY how America manages it's fisheries.

We fish them until they are in trouble, *THEN* we attempt to "recover" them.

Examples include, well, ALL fisheries. King Crab, Halibut, salmon, etc, etc, etc.

I can't blame Aunty for being an American. Can you?

Sadly, it's not the fishing that is killing off the wild steelhead and not giving them a chance. It's us. That virus called a human being. That my friends, will never change until we kill the world in which we live in.

No worries. As a species, we will be extinct soon (in geologic time). The Earth (and the salmon) will get a chance to recover long after we are gone.