I'm just posting to vent some frustration about the state of affairs over there..Got a call from my son today. On tuesday, the convoy he was riding in was attacked by insurgents with an IED. The vehicle directly in front of his was destroyed. Two of the three inside were killed. My son's best friend died in his arms. The vehicles? "armored" Suburbans..Yea, soccer mom rigs. Well the armor didn't do much to help those inside. My son is physically ok, but will be forever traumatized by the sight of his friends mangled and broken bodies. I'm hoping that he will be ok enough to continue his mission, if not, that they will send him home. Iknow we are at war with a religion in their own back yard, but I don't agree with our being there. I say pull all of our sons, daughters, fathers, brothers etc. out of that shithole and let the radical Islamists kill each other off. When he was first deployed, I felt dismayed, but not afraid. However, in light of the fact that it could have been his vehicle, I am now terrified at the prospect of never seeing him alive again, or that he may come home a maimed and broken shell of his former self. This madness must end! Pray for our troops... We all know Bush and Co aren't..

Thank God your son is ok I pray for all of them every single day. I hate seeing our future die in front of our eyes everyday for others that don't seem to care. The bravery and committment of the men and women in the services is a statement to their dedication and up-bringing. I want them home and yet I don't have anything at stake. God bless your son, his comrades and all their families.

RVW

ND,

I'm sorry that anyone is in Iraq who doesn't want to be there. It rankles my ass that anyone but the war cheerleaders are over there. If I had my way, those who think the American casualties are a small price to pay for the "war on terra'" would be the ones on the front lines daily. Not that I think there's any justification whatever for the US invasion in the first place, but the cheerleaders are the cretins that oughta' be there defending this illusion of liberty.

Sg

My son was telling me about what had happened. About how his best friends intestines were splattered all over his body armor.. [censored]! Noone should ever have to see that ... I can't say enough about our brave troops over there..I feel impotent..... [censored] THE RAGHEADS!!!!!

Please forgive me for my previous post...I cannot express how I am feeling right now.... OK Merg, I mean you no harm.. I'm just an angry old man..Like I said: Ahh!, youth!!!! You're ok, if not a little bit annoying.. It's cool. I am writing this now because I have ranted on this forum many times, and have gotten sage advice and jeers equally. I am gratefull for the opportunity to be able to post here.

Merg, you should have seen the b.s. i wrote previously that somehow magically vanished.

Here's to your son!

Your fear and pride are obvious. You have every reason for both. Tell him, "Thanks" from me.

What's his name and rank? I'd like to get it right in my prayers.

OK for the record, My son is a Staff Sgt. Air Force Office of Special Investigations. His friends were Tech Sgt. Ryan Balmer, 33 , from Mishawaka, Indiana, and Staff Sgt. 25. Canton Ohio..
Ryan was the one who breathed his last breath on my son. I intend to write the families of both of these guys, and tell them how brave their sons, husbands were. Also to tell them that my son was with them till the end. What a fucked up situation...

I'm with you N.D. My son-in-law is in northern Baghdad and every morning I read in the newspaper about that area having one or more U.S. soldiers killed. When I get a phone call from my daughter, I wonder if she is calling me to tell me that her husband is gone.

We've got to get out..........now. It's not a war, just a stupid "police action" involvement. I guess we didn't learn anything from Vietnam. Slow, steady U.S. deaths. As Barry Goldwater said about Vietnam, "pave it, make it a parking lot". End of story, end of us losing our young men and women.

What we learned from Veitnam is that Contractors such as Cheney's Halliburton and Bush's Carlysle Group, et al., stand to make Billions of no-bid contracts involving endless, pointless war.
Anyone know enough Geography to notice that we know hold military positions on Iran's Eastern and Western borders?

Police action,war on terror,pointless war, BS , Iraq is sitting on 27 trillion dollars worth of oil. I can't imagine how I would feel if my son was over there. I'm absolutely sickened by it all.

Irie, are you and I the only ones who see the bigger picture on this whole scenario? Iran is next on "W"'s hit list, but then we are at war with islam... It;s not gonna end anytime soon.

I'm glad to see that our country is finally opposed to the war. Years ago, I couldn't even look at this board because of all of the cheerleading and misdirected testosterone towards "killin' ragheads". Those of us that opposed the war were basically ridiculed and called pussies. At this point, I barely even care anymore. You can lead a horse to water...

Until servicemen and their families step up to blatently and loudly oppose the war and publicly call out the non-fighting, millionaire war pig politicians, nothing will change. Nookie, what your son witnessed is terrible and has unfortunately been repeated thousands of times by our soldies (and hundreds of thousands of times to Iraq civilians). Your (and I'm sure your son's) anger and "f the raghead" sentiments are normal but everyone should at least try to think of how we, as Americans, would act if a country invaded us, removed our leader, changed all the rules, put a government in place, and then didn't leave. I'd guess we'd be doing some shooting and labeled as "insurgents" ourselves. I know we were told they "wanted us to come" but I hope everyone now realized that was propaganda.

I wish your son the best but it isn't a stretch to say he'll never be the same. The whole thing is incredibly sad. The long-term mental costs of this war are just starting to surface. You'll see the "Vietnam Vet syndrome" on our streets 20 and 40 years from now.

For those that look back and wish they would have done something to stop this thing from happening to begin with, you have your chance right now in regards to Iran. And if you want the real story on Iraq, turn off your TV and start searching for servicemen blogs, diaries, and videos on the Internet.

Having been in the Army myself I somewhat perplexed by the range of emotions in the service today. We have an "all volunteer armed forces".. Don't read this wrong. Just concider it.

I think alot of young kids got duped into joining the armed forces because of the " shock and awe " method of combat that had been used in Iraq. In the first Gulf war, there was little or no ground combat at all. large numbers of Army and Marine forces were sent over and never saw a shot fired. Instead of sticking around and becoming nothing more than targets, they pulled out and left. It was a candy cruise.

I don't think the kids who are in the service now, thought for a second they would be placed in the situation they are in. Its a lot different than the others before them. In the Nam era, the armed forces involved were vastly kids who got jerked out of their lives by the draft.. fight or jail, was the decision they had to make. That war was fought on the backs of the poor and middle class without their consent or willingness to participate. The current armed forces are 100 % people who asked to be in the service, and all that it implys.

I really wonder how history is going to treat this whole deal. These guys there now should not be, they know it, we know it, yet its a oath they took right up front. I feel bad for them. I just am hoping our politicians can pull their heads out of their asses and get out of there and let them do each other like they always have. Problem is, top military brass are pushing hard for more troops.. not the American public.

Well said KD!

Excellent Post!

I'm not so sure this is true. There have been plenty of "top military brass" that have suggested alternatives from before this war even started (more troops initially, not dissolving the Iraqi Army, etc). The problem is that the administration keeps removing people that present ideas they don't like. The net effect is that it always LOOKS like the military wants more troops and escalation.

Just as the administration leaked/planted stories in the press (NY Times specifically) about WMD and then used those stories as "evidence" that WMD's existed, they are doing the same thing with military planning. They put someone in that will say what they want to hear and then use that statement as rational for action... completely circular arguments.

Kaiser, there were a handful of us out here sticking it to the neo cons from well before the appointment of the anti christ. Notice those wacky neocons are no where to be found now? IMO, the ultimate goal was to cut a swath through the mideast from Israel to India while siphoning off our tax dollars and oil profits into the hands of a few. One out of three ain't bad when the main objective of getting rich was accomplished. At this point, if we aren't going to pull out, I'd like a draft based upon how you voted. If you voted for this Admin or didn't vote at all you and/or your children are at the top of the list next to congressmen's and senator's sons. Where are all those flag waving street corner pro war idiots now? Did they all run out and enlist? I remember the likes of John Carlson leading groups to go out and flag wave. If you didn't honk then you were a traitor. We were literally on the very edge of a dictatorship in this country. It's sad to say, but our men and women really are fighing and dying for our freedom. If it had been the piece of cake the neo cons had expected this country would be a terrible place to live.

I wish I could believe that they are fighting and dying for my freedom because I'd certainly feel better about the war. To me, the Iraq war has nothing to do with "freedom". How has someone from Iraq tried to take my freedom? Even the 9/11 attack itself wasn't an attack on "freedom". It was clearly an attack, but the attack itself didn't impair freedom. Our government's own actions after the attack certainly attacked at least some of our freedoms (if illegal spying on Americans doesn't indicate a loss of freedom, I don't know what does?).

It makes me sick to see politicians with a cowboy complex or short man's syndrome state that "if you change how you live, the terrorists have won", while simulaneously flipping this country's constitution and basic principles on their heads.

ND - I feel for you and your son. I hope and pray that he and his mates get out of this mess safely and soon. If it is at all possible, I have less confidence in my leaders now than I did when we went into this ill-advised, poorly planned war. However..... one lesson that we should have learned from Vietnam is that if we leave we set the people left behind up for disaster. We have set this forest (Iraq) on fire and we have a moral obligation to try and put it out. I am so pissed at our leadership that they have brought us to this point of virtually no options. And Kaiser is right, back in late 2002 and early 2003 if you spoke out about the mistakes that were about to be made, you were labeled an unAmerican pussy. But, I will never forget who got us to this point and who supported the headlong rush to disaster.

What we must do now is figure out how to exit as quickly as possible while leaving behind a viable country. I certainly do not have the answers, but it is beginning to look like the surge is not working. I think the solution is diplomatic at this point if we can get the Decider in Chief to swallow his pride and explore other alternatives. I am not holding my breath however.

"while simulaneously flipping this country's constitution and basic principles on their heads. "

That's the freedom I am talking about. If Iraq had been easy those lost freedoms would be permanent. As it is, things have been bungled so badly that all of that crap is now called into question. There's still a chance we can survive as a free semi-democracy.

Eddie, what we need is to get out and then have a large trial on the charges of treason.

NookieDreaming, I am glad your son came out of that ok. Its a tough deal over there, and i am constantly amazed at the quality of our soldiers, and their ability to go on with the missions. I do remember somewhat our reasons for going there in the first place. I would like to remind all that our senators and congressmen and women after hearing intelligence and such did vote to do this thing. Now its unpopular and a lot of them are changing their ways. If everyone would get out of the way, and let the military do their job, this would be over pretty soon, or may have already been over, right or wrong. Now if we don not get this behind us, and win also I might add, I think you all better start reading the Koran, because your life is going to change. Sorry, I guess I just like to finish what I start. I will pray for yours just like I have been praying for mine. I wish you well.


CPO RET USN

I am truly humbled by the amount of support I have recieved since I first posted. Thank you all, for me and my son. I truly believe that this "police action" in Iraq is only the precursor to more troubles which lie ahead. Someone pointed out that if WE had been invaded, that we would react the same way. Point taken. However, I believe that this conflict is only the beginning of a much larger conflagration. Christian VS Muslim war is going to be the next world war. I for one hope that I am on the winning side. If not for my sake, for the sake of my children and grandchildren. Islamofascism is the biggest threat to world peace since Nazi Germany. Let us pray that the rest of the world (especially Europe) comes to the same conclusion before it's too late. I don't want to have to send my sons and grandsons to liberate Europe again, as our fathers and grandfathers had to do.
The fate of our world hangs by a thread..

Don't forget about Christian fascism. IMO, what just happened in Gaza with Hamas taking control, which is now a Palestinian civil war, is more fuel on the fire. If it continues Israel will be drawn in and that will be the catalist.

fas·cism –noun 1. a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

Some parts of this definition hit pretty close to home. I've never understood the pushing of the term "Islamofacism". It really only began being used as other phrases ran stale ("war on terror").

Stlhead, I don't think Israel wants anything to do with the fighting in Gaza right now. They have stated they won't interfere and I don't see why they would when their enemy is busy killing themselves off and making a Palestinian state less and less likely. I do think you are right though that Israel will be the catalyst to "the big fight", whenever that happens and whatever that turns out to be. I think our blind support of Israel has as much to do with the problem as anything though. How come the "lower taxes" crowd doesn't seem to moan about the $3 to $5 Billion American tax dollars given to Israel each year? It is especially nutty when you realize that much of our political support for Israel is based on fundamental Christian beliefs regarding the return of Jesus and the end of the world. To them, they believe that the Jews must beat the Muslims and be returned their land before the end of the world will come (at which point the Jews will be judged and sent to hell). To me, that is just as scary as the extremist Muslim wackos.

Sorry, I just realized I was starting to go off... apparently time to stop my caffeine consumption.

Yeah Israel would rather sit on the sidelines but that won't happen. Already the US and Israel are easing sanctions to prop up the Fatah against Hamas. Given that, IMO, in the near future Hamas is going to start trying to draw Israel into the conflict. But I am by no means an expert on the middle east and prefer it that way. I wish our government preferred it that way as well.

I couldn't agree more. If we didn't need their oil, we wouldn't even care about that chunk of the globe.

Israel has no oil. Why does the U.S. care about Israel? What do we get for our billions in foreign aid to them every year, except Israel's ememies become our enemies? Lousy deal by my accounting.

well we all know we are getting fed a bunch of [censored] aboutthe war...thing is...is there anything we can do. We've sacrificed so much freedom to be "protected" ...what do you do when you need protection from your [censored] government? Bush is an idiot...but i think he is smarter then he lets on.....but not in any way thats going to help the american people. i have this itch onthe back of my ballsack there is a huge issue behind why we are there and that its bigger than anything weve ever seen. I beleive we are seeing the beginning of the end folks.....look at the way this country has been going for the last 100 years.....look at where we might be in 20 years? its bleek at best. Some big changes are goign to happen in my lifetime.

that said....sorry for your sons...your daughters...but they do keep signing up....war is war....when you sign up for the army or even the reserve....it isnt patty cake your training for. i dont pretend to know anything about training for war or what they are going through. seems to me that they "entice "them to join...nevertheless it is free will.


still pretty gay what Curious George is making our country go through for something so simple....paper with a number printed on it.

i too have friends that are completely f&&&d in the head because of what they went through over there. its not good.

I agree 100%.

The Hamas won't have to draw Israel into a war to start Armageddon...

We'll invade Iran, and Iran will shoot missiles at Israel. China, who gets its oil from Iran, will fight us there. Don't be surprised if Russia, who also gets oil from Iran, is also not on our side.

The United States and Israel against Russia and China, fighting it out in Israel and in Iran...that is where it starts.

This happy message brough to you by the Apocolyptic loonies that by hook or by crook have actually been given the reins to drive our country's wagon.

Fish on...

Todd

I'm pretty sure Russia is already in the game. We Backed what became the Taliban against Russia and look what happened...bled Russia dry and no more super power. I'm thinking Iran isn't making the weapons they are supplying the "insurgency" with and they do have a very cozy relationship with Russia. [censored] for tat and no more super power. Unfortunately this world war we'll be the ones lacking in allies.
Merg, be glad that people enlist otherwise you'd have been drafted years ago.

Aunty, it's not about Islam, just like the war in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, is not about Islam.

They're about money, money and oil.

When we cut off China's supply of oil by attacking Iran, they'll be there in a flash...that's why Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor, we cut off their oil supply...what else could China possibly do?

Here's one thing they could do...call us on our debt, thanks to Dumbya's folly in Iraq, that China owns...they own the paper on our "spend billions on war while cutting taxes" debt. That would plunge us into a depression that would be far worse than before.

China's thirst for oil is right up there with ours, and they have no love for us...they need the oil.

Fish on...

Todd

If there was a single person with a brain running the show, we'd partition Iraq and give the peices to the neighbors which lent a hand in it's destruction:

1/3 To Kuwait
1/3 to Saudi Arabia
1/3 to Turkey

Then we get out and turn a blind eye to Brutal Repression of Insurgency Eastern Style.

It all used to be Turkey anyway, and it was The UK's asinine partition of The Ottoman Empire that started all this for the most part, so I vote we give most back to Turkey, and say "Sorry about or British Friends back in 1918, They were Empire Happy. If we'd have known better we'd have sided with You and Germany and avoided alot of this heartache."

George W, the Commander in Chief, and Conduhleeza. Reminds me of Ted Danson and Whoopi.

Thanks Auntie, but I don't think it is straying too far from my original post. It seems it has had the desired effect in getting people to talk about it in depth. Everyones opinions are equally important(with the exception of the Merg's)..Snicker, just kidding. Anyways, I think this has been a sort of healing process for me, to read what others may think, be they conservative, liberal or otherwise. The Middle Eastern Countries hate Israel because it's almost like having a little USA in their own back yard. If they all rose up to try to destroy Israel, I'm sure that we would be compelled to assist them in any way our government felt was nessecary. It's about so much more than oil. It's a culture clash.

I couldn't agree more, Nookie. I certainly appreciate the opportunity to toss my ideas out there and hear what others have to say, even if I don't agree with everything I hear. It is also refreshing to see a bunch of fishing junkies that are able to have a civil conversation about something that stirs such passion.