Oh, so this is simply sour grapes derived by adverse reactions to some treatment. I'm sure you first discussed the inherent risks of that treatment with your doctor, no?

Following your example, then, there should be millions of Americans in the for-profit healthcare system that are just as vehemently campaigning against the present US system.

I'll guarantee you that there are tens of thousands of Americans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan daily that wouldn't trade their healthcare for any other.

I have personal experience with health care in Canada, as my wife is Canadian and we have a lot of relatives up there. Our family ranges from my wife's 90 year old Grandma to our 5 year old Grandson. Healthcare is not free in Canada. You pay according to what you make. I have had my wife in the ER up in New Westminster and in Overlake ER. I was pretty impressed with the quality of care she got in New West and not so impressed with the miss-diagnosis she got at Overlake.

Yes, there are lines for non-life threatning treatments like knee replacement, shoulder surgery etc., however for anything life threatening the care is instant and excellent. Some Provinces are better then others. The care in Alberta is much better then in B.C., according to my wife and now her mother who moved to B.C. last year from Alberta.

The only complaints I have heard from Canadians is that private health care is starting to worm it's way in. There was a lot of controversy over a private clinic that opened in Vancouver a couple of years ago. The idea is being sold on the concept that it will relieve the lines for non-life threatning treatment, but instead it will probably draw Doctors away from the public system.

Is their system perfect? No. Is our system perfect? No. Read today's Times about the shortage of Primary Care Physicians down here. Apparently there isn't enough money in Primary Care.

I have 100% paid for top of the line health Insurance through my employer. The premium is around $1200 a month. Since my wife moved down here she has had numerous MRIs trying to diagnose a back problem, that still goes un-diagosed, but Docs here have no problem spending my employer's insurance. She was actually healthier under the Canadian system.

I realize it is a nearly impossible task to re-do our healthcare system and I am not advocating one thing over another. Our system and Canada's have their pluses and minuses. But if you are looking at overall longevity and quality of life, our system is not the leader, except in costs.

What about our senior citizens that live below the poverty level and are thrown in isolation, so I say take a senior citizen fishing in your area, they have alot of great stories for us and should all be taken noticed. I have a Grand mother in law that is over 100 years old and I take her to church every Sunday so thats why you don't see many pictures or post from me about fishing because I sacrifice one of my 2 days off so I can take this fine lady somewhere she needs to be and devote my time for her so she can be in good company. She's too old for fishing ,but tells me the times when she was a young girl and used to fish the Eochoman, Grays and Naselle rivers when there was no cars , just horses and the Steelhead and Salmon that abound in the rivers in those days . She is the last of the Pioneers of the Cathlamet area. If you ever fish out of Cathlamet , stop at the museum there and checkout the old photos of draft horses pulling in huge Chinook in nets!

Now you're just embarrassing yourself, AM. You post links to stories about a medical facility that was placed on the base closure list years ago. It only became important and needed again after your hero went on his cowboy rampage. Naturally Walter Reed was in poor repair because of neglect, since it was scheduled to close there was no need to put money into it.

Speaking of making an ass out of yourself, I knew it was your husband you were referencing--I remember you posting about it when it was happening. But why blame the entire VA medical system for something one doctor did? Were you not advised of the risks before the procedure? I know I always am, and if I choose to proceed, I have accepted the risks. It's all part of that "taking responsibility" thing you R's are always preaching.

And as far as:
I believe I'll just take the advice of your tagline.

Sadly, you've become a 19%er.

I've taken this to a personal level??

I'm really disappointed in what you've become these last two years, AM.

Not that I believe my opinion holds any weight here...

Whew! Here's an "interesting" article by a doctor in my local community regarding what physicians face regarding insurance and patient care:

http://www.newsreview.com/chico/Content?oid=646939

AM, don't you think the military medical system is tracked and reported on alot more closely then the public health care system? Think a public hospital is going to willingly make public it's mistakes?

I agree with GH, you're starting to lean so far right you are going to fall down. Harder to see when you're only using the right eye.

Yeah but I attribute that to the overall lack of planning in the "rush to war".

The problems with care-for-profit treatment has been there all along, too. Just a couple of weeks ago an 18 year old woman died from one of the most routine surgeries in the nation--breast augmentation. Last weekend there was a large article in the local paper about medication mistakes to infants; 1 out of 15 kids are harmed by medicine mix ups in hospitals. Dana Carvey's surgeon bypassed the wrong artery in his heart.

The National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine estimates as many as "98,000 Americans die each year not from the medical conditions they checked in with, but from preventable medical errors."

But my original point remains; the statistics do not support the belief that socialized medical care is substandard, just as the statistics and empirical evidence refutes the opinion that VA care is substandard as compared to for-profit medical care.


By the way:

Can you point out those outright lies?

War AND politics are tragedies...

So, McCain touched off that missile? And that's why he spent all those years at the Hanoi Hilton?

As a disabled veteran who uses the facilities at American Lake,I have recieved very good treatment there and am very confident in the staff I have dealt with.Every doctor has been proffessional and actually has taken the time to make me feel that my time and concerns are being addressed . I know all the horror storys must have some merit, but have to ask myself if it is more in the line of a persons expectations being more than what is there to offer. I was told once that we all have greater opinions of our selves than is realistic. Put your finger in a glass of water, pull it out and see how long the hole lasts.I have also recieved care at civilian facilities and have had the isolated occasion to recieve what I deemed to be subpar care. It does not mean the system is broken, just that particular day.
I fail to see where it is writen that all people are ENTITLED to adequate health care. Some things you should have to earn and be willing to sacrifice to attain if that is what you desire. I honestly believe it is all about choices and what is truely important to you. I used to read articles by Bruce Williams (a financial "advisor") often his answer to the people who were in deep debt was..
1.How many hours a day do you work now?
2. Do you smoke,drink,etc.?
Then he would ask if they had thought about a 2nd job to get caught up,even if it was part time. You can change your situation if you want to and are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it.

While I am on my rant, can someone please explain to me why it is so much more patriotic to have been a POW than to have just served in the armed forces. I know it will rile some of the lemmings, but what is so heroic about having been captured? I am not belittling anyone who has had to endure this situation. I had an uncle who was shot down over Germany (tail gunner) and survived in a POW camp. I talked to him and his opinion was the heroes were the ones who didn't make it back home alive. God Bless John Mccain and all those who were POW's ,but they are not heroes in my book.Hollywood has given us this tainted opinion of what a true hero is much to the diservice of the real heroes.

My father in law passed away at American Lake. A retired Major and combat veteran of three wars. I visited many times and felt his care was pretty good versus what you would have seen in civilian facilities unless you are rich.

"I fail to see where it is writen that all people are ENTITLED to adequate health care."

You don't think all children in the US should be entitled to health care? The most common argument why countries with a national health care system have better over all health than the US is the early preventative care that begins in childhood. And, even here in the US, there is growing opinion that preventative care lowers over all costs in the long run.

It's always that ounce of prevention isn't it?

My personal gripe is a classic example of insurance BS. I have a cracked molar and some bone loss at that tooth. The dentist will not crown the tooth until a periodontist does some grafting/seeding of bone. My company pays 100% for dental, but the insurance considers the bone regrowth "elective" and won't cover the procedure - my cost = $800 to $1000. That's a lot of quality fishing dollars. So the insurance company would rather that I lost the tooth or live in continued discomfort. Fargin iceholes!!! It's all about the money.....

Fishing versus a tooth....tie the tooth to your downrigger and yank the bastard.

Yes, but will the tooth catch fish? Remember no gold crown on it yet as an attractor!

I think it comes down to the sacrifice for the country that people recognise laterun. It is not that McCain is more heroic than the others who serve but having been beaten, tortured and never denouncing his country like many others do means something about a mans toughness and character. I have never heard anyone say he is more heroic than those who fought beside him or god forbid, those who sacrificed even more. What he endured is what people realize on both sides of the political spectrum.
There are those people who get their headlines from places like moveon.org that say what they say but they are so off that they make themselves irrelivant. Sad because those are the same people who championed him before as the only republican people should listen to that hate him now he got the GOP nod. The old knife you in the back croud.

No I don't.

Your avatar speaks for itself dude

Docspud, I know what you mean about his character and I would probably vote for him as there is really no choice on the demo. side. Same old story, how many millions of people to chose from and this is the choice?,give me a break.That being said, I am always turned off by the political spots that bring up his time in captivity for the sympathy(?) angle. These are the same pundits who pushed so hard to keep GW's military time out of the issue and off the plate for discussion. Like any other dodgers who went to college,Canada,NG,or got deferments for flatfeet and such,I would never,ever vote for one of them. Too many young men died in Vietnam to support the system that allowed this to happen. When I was drafted,the star running back (fullback) that I had just graduated with got a deferment because his dad knew someone to call to get a doctor to say he was not fit. I know this for a fact and although we were very good friends, I never spoke to him since 1966.

Stlhead, yes,I think it would be a good idea if all children had health care until 18. But it should be contingent upon them staying in school and out of trouble. There need to be incentives attached to any rewards. We have such a high dropout rate in this country that it does no good to complain about the illegals and the outsourcing of jobs if we continue to have no one to fill the upper level positions. Microsoft would be glad to hire locally if they could find people with the skills required.We put so much effort into our kids excelling in sports that the academics get a backseat.