Hey everybody, AM's a liar.

Here's the only thing I ever said about the USS Forrestal:
"By the way, do some research on the USS Forrestal."
Even in your rhetorical hyperbolic delusion, how do you come up with the conclusion that I stated he was responsible from that one sentence? Aren't you the one that just recently made a directed comment about ASSumptions?

I never once used the word "war crime" or even "treason" for that matter towards McCain. I simply stated the fact that he violated Article V of the Code of Conduct. And it's no smear campaign because he admits he did it:
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information from him, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital normally unavailable to American POWS. (U.S. government documents)

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press began quoting him giving specific military information.

One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain answered: 'My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which necessitated replacements. From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam.'"

In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place.

That last fact is why I opined that what he did was worse than Fonda. She may have sympathized with the enemy, but she never gave away sensitive information to the enemy.

I, too, find it questionable why he's considered a hero after all things considered concerning his time in captivity and actions upon returning home.

Barf

"Microsoft would be glad to hire locally if they could find people with the skills required."

Not true. Corps like Microsoft used to train people locally. Now they open mass campuses in foreign countries like India where labor is cheap and train there then whine about lack of talent here. Who in their right mind would get a comp sci degree these days when you can see the hand writing on the wall....those jobs aren't coming back until the pay is so crappy it ain't worth it.

BTW, I would never consider health care a reward. It should be a basic right which is good for society as a whole in the long run. Healthy kids mean healthy adults. Better workers and less of a drain on society. If every child and adult were allowed an annual physical think of the long term benefits. "You blood sugar is getting low so we need to regulate that". Right there could mean that twenty years down the road we don't have someone suffering from severe diabetes, can't function and drawing welfare or disability. In this example a $100, or whatever, physical saved $100K or more.

"O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain
How is that not collusion? Fonda was never charged with treason either, so saying my opinion of what he did is worse does in no way imply I believe his actions were treasonous. Another assumption by you.

What conditions must be taken into account to determine whether the CoC was violated? I've read it for years and have never seen any conditions written. It's pretty binary.

The report said, "McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place. "
And you said, "...remarks that endangered no one's life at the time..."
Now that is funny. Your naive ignorance is almost cute.

"By the way" means simply look at the facts surrounding a subject. I didn't say he was responsible for the Forrestal fire, but obviously many of his shipmates did on the site you chose to read. Ergo, there is speculation by some that he was directly involved with its cause. However, another historical site doesn't even mention that he was assigned to the ship. I found that odd considering his notoriety. There's no irrefutable proof that he either was or was not involved. Smart discerning readers look at both sides when doing investigative research.

I can't smear McCain, your party already did in 2000. I have merely posted excerpts of what the R's have said earlier, or quotes from McCain himself. I'm simply reminding people of what your party has already said. It's your inherent hypocrisy that will not allow you to understand that.

Yet you are a fervent McCain supporter and will undoubtedly vote Republican. Others, too, have noticed you've become a hypocritically inconsistent partisan hack putting party before country-- and now you're playing the victim card.
Very sad.

Stlhead ,I just read an article about Microsoft and thier need for so many visas, the guy in the interview said it was because they could not fill the positions in the local area and would be happy to do so if the qualified people were available. Guess he must have been just giving lip service to the situation.

[quote=AuntyM
I think it's going to take something catastrophic in this nation to change our course. Another depression, a pandemic etc. and we will be forced to make those changes. I don't see it happening because Hillary or anybody else wills it though. The industry is too strong and powerful. [/quote]

+1

According to Michael Moore's movie F/911, Hillary's biggest PAC contributor is the health insurance industry - "you become what you resist" is a saying that comes to me often when talking about politics/bureaucracy.

When has the goverment ever done anything better or more efficiently than private enterprise?

"Stlhead ,I just read an article about Microsoft and thier need for so many visas, the guy in the interview said it was because they could not fill the positions in the local area and would be happy to do so if the qualified people were available. Guess he must have been just giving lip service to the situation. "

Yes lip service. It's Bill Gates's annual lobbying to have the cap lifted on H1B visas so they can import foreigners who work for less and are a form of slave labor. If an H1B visa holder loses his job he is deported. That's a big hold on an employee that they don't have over a citizen. Also, the big outsourcing companies like to cycle the H1B visas. Meaning they send a different person each time. That person learns at Microsoft and goes back to India and teaches to others on a paid for by Microsoft campus. Where's the big Microsoft teaching institution here? Why doesn't Microsoft invest in our Universities if it want's talent? Salaries are now rising in India so what happens? Russia, Poland, China but no investment in rearing US talent. Why? All about the bottom line and, yes, lip service.

You are correct there.. Although as the haliburton thing goes, from what I understand (most likely worng) they pick a contractor to do emergency work every year (in cases where the competitive bid process wouldn't work) and choose to go with them. Haliburton just got lucky and did what any GC with an open work ticket would do. To my understanding there are only 3 or 4 GC's in the world big enough to do this work.

Yeah.

It was luck.

And the moon is made of cheese.

Just a thought... the military used to be self contained for all operations (food, logistics, etc.) but now relies on outsourcing. What if those supply corporations went bankrupt?

I'm thinkin' UPS (no, not United Pot Smokers) - talk about for profit efficiency!

OMG.....another thread hijacked by those pesky boneless brown trout!!!

You can thank Clinton for cutting Military spending .. That being said though, the rebuilding process is usually done by an outside contractor from my limited knowledge.

Shouldn't a blaming Clinton post be over on the worn out sayings thread?

Oh no, I was referring to actual ongoing military operations, not rebuilding. And while all fascists may be considered bigots, not all bigots are fascists

+1

Ehh, shouldn't saying bush is an Idiot be over there too? People seem to quickly forget how many US troops were over seas under UN control during Clintons time. And all of the military spending that went to those escapades. So in reality Spending under clinton went down slightly, but there were still several costly little "peace keeping" missions going on funded directly by US tax payers.

One of my closes friends was in Bosnia for 2 years under Clinton getting shot at. Not saying its as bad as the current fisco, but its not too great.

Nope.

Check back in eight years.

"UN control"

Too bad Bush didn't bother to get the world behind him huh?