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#466523 - 11/08/08 09:50 PM So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess?
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
I just watched the news, and it's all bad. G.M. is on the brink of bankrupcy, and the other two are very little better off. It's possible, that without government intervention all three may go under! Who could have imagined that a few years ago? Seventeen states are in deep debt and laying off staff like crazy. Retail sales are way down, and projected to go lower. This looks like a cosmic cluster [censored] to me.

So, what, if anything, should Bush do in the next 70 days? What should Obama do once he takes office. Any bright ideas? Can we try to have a discussion without any partisan sniping or blame game stuff?
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#466526 - 11/08/08 10:35 PM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: Dave Vedder]
summerrun Offline
Dude, where's my boat?

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 2354
Loc: Seattle
Fix housing first...its all flowing down hill from that cluster fook. As crazy as it sounds I would expect a huge flood of loan modifications ie actual principle reductions and/or huge interest rate drops. Its cheaper for a lender to lower a loan balance by 50k and drop the rate from 7 to 4 then it is to foreclose. The govt will step in and back the loans for the lenders that go into default after they have been modified...anyway my 2C and where I think something will be done in the near future...cheers
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#466532 - 11/08/08 10:55 PM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: Dave Vedder]
ParaLeaks Offline
WINNER

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
Ask Darcy? She has a degree in economics from Harvard, you know. wink

Sorry, that was just too easy....couldn't help myself.

I don't think there is a single thing that will get the average American spending like there ain't no tomorrow again for quite some time. Reducing interest on existing loans to keep people paying might help a little, but doesn't solve the market value issue. When a house isn't worth the mortgage, someone's going to eat it. It should be the owner, but if they can't pay, then the only solution, I suppose is to have the Gov't guarantee the lender's principle. But still, with all that, people still aren't going to spend freely.....I think we are screwed.
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#466537 - 11/08/08 11:05 PM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: Dave Vedder]
JoJo Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 461
Dave,

If I was President I would cut taxes for all americans by way of a flat tax not just the poor and middle class but the rich also. If you give the people more of there hard earned money they are more than likely to spend it and that will bolster the economy. Certain useless government programs would have to be dropped to make up for the shortfall. God knows there are many that can be cut like all the bull$hit pork that went into the bailout that bought votes.. Next I would cut the corporate tax from almost 40 percent down to 25 to make us more competitive with other countries and lure business back into this country that would create jobs. While we are cutting taxes, lower the capital gains and get rid of the death tax, the death tax is flat un american.

I would than require banks to increase the percentage of cash on hand and than overhall lending practices. Right now consumer confidence is down and there is a distrust of CEO's cashing in while stockholders lose. As President I would make it a top priority to prosicute CEO's for illigal activity.

At this point I due not see it feasible for the government to step in and bail people out of there bad loans. Most knowingly signed loans they may not be able to pay for. It is not the governments job to bail them out from there own mistake.

I would drill for oil where ever feesible while creating other forms of fuel. Cheaper gas will give americans more money. US auto makers were killed by high gas prices and then the spiraling economy kinda piled on to kill the auto market. Cheaper gas would be a first step with getting them back on track and than along with the lowered corporate tax would get them back on the road to profitability. The fact that these corps are all going to be claiming losses this year will cut into the amount of taxes that the government will collect (which goes back to cutting the corporate tax). It's in everybody's interest to make them profitable. Every American should take pride in buying US built Products.

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#466538 - 11/08/08 11:10 PM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: ParaLeaks]
summerrun Offline
Dude, where's my boat?

Registered: 11/05/00
Posts: 2354
Loc: Seattle
Didnt say it was the fix, just that it is my guess at one of the first steps towards at least stemming the foreclosure side of this huge issue. Nothing to date has worked and it is estimated that 1 in 4 homeowners will have negative equity by the end of March 09...and will get worse than that if nothing is done quickly.

The programs implemented by HUD/Fannie/Freddie have not worked to date. The only program that is getting rave reviews is what the FDIC has done with IndyMac customers which is exactly what I have described above and I believe Wells and Chase announced similar programs within the past week or so.

What will get people spending again? Without job/wage growth, stock gains, home equity gains and a lending environment that is just as tough today as it was easy 2 years ago, thats a damn good question.
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#466541 - 11/08/08 11:56 PM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: JoJo]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7650
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As one who has been around government for more than 50 years, I have one question. Specifically, what useless government programs would you eliminate? What should governmnet not do? I am sure there are some things that need to be cut, but let us actually talk about them.

Unfortunately, we will be having these discussions very soon. In some states, it will be tough. In others, even worse.

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#466543 - 11/09/08 12:16 AM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: Carcassman]
Steelheadman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/15/99
Posts: 4166
Loc: Poulsbo, WA,USA
Simple - Use money from Iraqi oil to bail us out.
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I'd Rather Be Fishing for Summer Steelhead!

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#466551 - 11/09/08 01:52 AM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: ]
JoJo Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 461
Government Cuts

1st Amtrak: Most don't know that Amtrak is government owned and the taxpayer has been paying the price. They have not been self sufficient since the begining and have been bailed out many times. 2009 Budget 1.3 Billion.

2nd NASA: What are we really getting from NASA as a citizen of this country. Private space flight is on the way and NASA seems like a logical candidate for closure to ease the burdon on tax payers. 2009 Budget 17.6 Billion

3rd United States Botanic Garden: Growing plants for the beautification of the capital. Exhibits, and educational programs promoting botanical knowledge. 2009 Budget 10 Million plus 33.5 million in renovations that were recently completed.

4th Department of Education: Lets face it the budget goes up every year and our kids get even dumber. Time to put Education back in the individual states hands like the 10th Amendment requests. 2009 Budget request 59.2 Billion.

5th The National Endowment for the Arts: Previous artist have used grants from the orginization for crazy $hit. Karen Finley, a stage actress, used an NEA grant to produce a play in which she poured chocolate syrup over her own nude body. 2009 Budget request 128.4 Million

6th Deportation of Illigal immigrants: illigal Immigrants are bleeding this country and many states dry. Estmates put the cost between 22 and 70 billion in federal funding paying for illigal immigrants. California alone pays 10 Billion a year. It's time for this country to take a hard stand against illigal immigration and start rounding them up and shipping them back.
Federal tax dollars are given to immigration groups by way of grants that are then spent on rallies basically promoting illigal immigration.

I would start with these.


Edited by JoJo (11/09/08 02:28 PM)

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#466552 - 11/09/08 02:05 AM Re: So How Do We Get Out of This Economic Mess? [Re: ]
donno Offline
The Cool kid

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 518
Loc: baker prairie
I don't agree with the concept of adjusting the principal to bring it within the means of people to pay the loan. Those dirt bags that couldn't afford a home bought one on a crappy arm and used the 125 percent financing along with the inflated value to pay off their 20k +/- in credit card debt and buy a new car. It's POS like that that are going to walk out of this smelling like a rose. I feel they owe what they borrowed. Period. Even if it takes um 60 years to pay it off. I pay my bills, everyone else should pay theirs.

Looking at it in another angle the rising unemployment is going to nullify any attempts to stop the foreclosures. A family without job or source of income can't make a house payment so it won't matter how you restructure the loan.

As for cutting back on state gov't. I'd start at the top. Reduce the number of senators and representatives. That may be a good way to start at the federal level too.

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