I should have known I wasn't going to win on this one.

Frak fishing.

I'm going to take up underwater basket weaving.

i have to agree this is a totally foolish thread, it started off destined to be a crash and burn pisser.... a very poor way of creating a post.

this CCA movement has proved yet again that sport fishers can't pull together in any positive direction 100%

for example even with the total removal of ALL commi nets. guys would be pissed because there would be a huge surplus of now hatchery fish. that would bring out even more unethical sport fishers. say the entire humpy crowd!!!

While i don't agree with some stuff CCA stands for, im willing to send 25$ there way each year to better the odds of accomplishing something.
Any organization that is for helping enhance habitat, improve salmon/steelhead runs, and try to get selective harvest methods in place gets my money.....

As far as the bandwagon propaganda approach.... That's Docs choice/boat.

Why not join all the organizations trying to do good for the fish and the sportsman?
There is nothing being done in any of these groups that any of you can truly say and prove is hurting the cause!
And for those of you that keep saying how much ground work was done before CCA, get over it, all the "ground" work for the last 35 years has been like a fart in the wind! I have been there since the early 70's myself and watched the sportsman get blown off over and over!
Maybe CCA will actually make something happen just by getting the shear numbers which would prove to the powers the sportsman have finally decided to band together and fight the commercial BS instead of each other.---Of course, this post pretty much proves that sportsman cannot seem to agree on much!

You're right GBL...all was lost before the light of CCA shined brightly on all of us.

Since all efforts prior to CCA were nothing more then a "fart in the wind" I guess I will have alot more time and money to fish and hunt since I wouldn't be "wasting" anymore of it driving to Olympia, writing letters, spending time on the phone with issues dealing with sportfishing and all of those other "fart in the wind" efforts.

Thanks for setting me straight GBL.....I am now offically over it....for good...

Friends don't tell friends they have to join the CCA to fish with them.

I keep hearing this, and wondering aloud -- since commercials are (at least on the CR) limited by impacts -- why haven't they switched to more selective methods previously? I mean more fish = more money, right? Could be any of:

a) economics are net negative -- e.g. the extra fish don't offset the incremental costs

b) impacts math is based on gill net mortality, seasons are set on these impacts--so each skipper to use the most productive, lowest cost method legally allowed. In short the commercials COULD make more money with seiners, but would need to be organized. They end up here out of disorganization--even as disorganized as we are traded opportunity (days) for selectivity (barbless/clip fisheries)

c) fear that once they go selective, the old allocation methods (based on impacts) will be traded for new allocation methods (based on harvest #s).

d) something I've not thought of yet

http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/policies/c3617_attch1.pdf

(d) Continue moving away from allocation-based fishery management to objective-based fishery management.

(b) Continue to provide opportunities and resources to further develop selective commercial fishing techniques with a goal of reducing mortality of listed fish and increasing access to hatchery fish.

It's not easy to change from gill netting to more selective methods. Tangle nets were a flop. When you start looking at seining or fishwheels they have to go from a one or two man relatively inexpensive operation to larger more expensive operation. They couldn't replace all the gill net permits with seine permits because of over capacity for the fishery. If they went to fish wheels the same problem exists on a larger scale. So the question becomes how do you get, say 50 gill net permits combined into 10 seine permits or one fish wheel permit? It would kinda be like converting a bunch of capitalists into communists .

Things change. Preachers dont bar the doors on the non believers.
The salesman doesnt shut out the competitions customers.
In reality, the efforts of Todd are equal to the efforts of Doc. I would have to assume, that givers and takers are the people being separated, at least in theory. I cant think of a better place to make the pitch.

Daddy--
Your post and your attitude just proved my point!

Contrary to popular belief, there are only a few people who currently fish with Doc who have bunched panties over this, and they have a common denominator. Good people, different beliefs. Others are just chiming in and choose to spend none of their time doing anything for the fish they are fishing for other than cooking them.

Do friends tell friends they can't kill a wild steelhead in their boat where it's legal to do so? Like it or not, Captain's rules.

Oh and Daddy--
Before you take your next shot or go off an a rant--
I commend you and Todd and anyone else that takes the time to get involved, BUT, all that involvement means very little (fart in the wind) when all the powers see is a few dedicated people like Todd or you in their face every month. Without a commited, dedicated group to stand together you are wasting your time.
There is no one (so far) on this board that I can say I remember from all the trips to Olympia back in the 70's or 80's, so the fart in the wind was not a shot at you or anyone, just a state of fact of what we got out of the months of our lives trying to stop politics from running our state fisheries back then. The commercials and Indians were GROUPS with power and ran right over us like a small speed bump.
So far, in the last 20 years, I have seen NOTHING work to change for the better and on the surface it looks like CCA has the best chance. Maybe there is fault in CCA, but fishermen should band together and at least try. If everyone joined CCA for just two years and let the process develop, we might all be surprised! If not, move on to some other group and try again.
So, bitch and complain about CCA or any other group all you guys want, but nothing will change as long as you all fight on boards like this about joining--Join, let the process work and see if it helps, you have nothing to loose but 25 bucks.

All fishermen are dumb fks, except you and me.
And I'm not too sure about you.

GBL....

No where have I ranted or "taken a shot."

As far as your comment of:

"Your post and your attitude just proved my point!"

Then I guess YOU win and can feel good about yourself all day long.

BTW....In the beginning, I was probabley an original CCA member here in Washington before you were....I'm just not anymore.

What I have said in this thread is that I disagree with Doc's "line in the sand."

Well, this just turned into another pissing match.


My hat is off to you Doc. You're a class act. A small donation to an organization you belong to isn't much to ask.


Todd, you sit on this board and tell people they're a bunch of F'n idiots/retards/wackos/ignorants...etc. Just because they don't see things the way you do. That's a good way to promote any sort of harmony on many fronts whether it's politics or fishing.




THAT sounds pretty childish to me. It's like sticking your fingers in your ears and mumbling so you don't hear what someone else has to say.

What a completely retarded thread! Alligator mouths and overly self impressed hummingbird asses.


Great display of solidarity.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyljNfQUu5A

In the long run, the line in the sand will disappear. Closing ourselves off to others, who are not involved in the same organization is counter productive. If the requirement was upgraded to the next level, the restriction would target everyone who did not serve on a chapter or state committee. Pretty soon, your circle of influence is so small, you become a high school click.

At the same time, people need to keep in mind, that CCA is a successful model that has been duplicated in seventeen states. A successful model in Fast Food, is MacDonalds. They try and duplicate the model and the results in every city.

The CCA model is still dependent on the actions and committment of membership. If noone wants to serve on a banquet committee to raise money, or if the committee threw out the successful approach (another model) then the banquet committee would likely fail. It all comes down to the individuals who are willing to work with others using the cca model, to accomplish the goals that are set forth by the State organization.

Since raising money, beyond membership dues is one leg of the organization, there must be more people to form other legs of the organization. There must be an adequate number of people in Government relations, membership, communication and in management, for each of those legs to support the organization and move it forward. How large it is, and how well it functions, will determine, how well it moves in each direction and how fast.

Since there is turnover within the positions, the organization must continually recruit for committees, the board and in management. Most of them are volunteers, who serve, based on their own abiility and time available. The largest challenge to individual members, is to work along side and under other people in an organizational structure (for free). That means you dont all get to be the boss and it also means the boss also gets to do just as much grunt work as anyone else. We each find our own way of contributing our time or our money in some way to support one leg of the organization and help keep it strong and moving in the general direction.

Not every chapter is as strong as another chapter, due to the level of membership, participation and cooperation. The model of each chapter is the same. Recruit members and raise money thru banquets. Gov Relations functions within each chapter is dependent on volunteers working on selected activities in the local watershed and with local governments. Local chapters, who have volunteers, who serve on state committees will have better lines of communication and more influence, as to projects and priorities. A case in point is bottom fish in Puget Sound. Shellfish in Puget Sound. Industrial Pollution in Puget Sound. It can be and should be more than gillnets in the Columbia River. You could find a Dam being proposed in your area, or you might want to swing the hammer, to make one come down. It could be water shortages or habitat renewal in your area or projects like bird nests on man made Islands. Culvert repairs and egg box programs are just part of the possibilities in any particular area. It just takes people who are willing to make a plan and make it work. Each activity in addition to the goals of the organization, creates a purpose for people to join the organization.

I hope it's not too obvious to point out that I'm not the one that said I'd restrict guests in my boat to folks who only do or do not belong to a certain organization...or political party, race, Ford or Chevy drivers, NASCAR fans or F1 fans, Husky alums or Cougar alums...hell, I've been known to fish with people from Oregon, even

Be cool, have fun, and fish hard...that's all it takes to fish with me...no card check required at the launch.

Fish on...

Todd

Guilty of joining to fish out of Docs boat but a few on this board know I have donated far beyond 25 bucks a year to CCA and other groups without fn around with the paper work to wave in the wind. I can honestly say I have never had the paper in front of me and never tracked it down knowing that eventually it would happen. Was laughing with the PSA guys about the same thing a few weeks ago. I'll make a point to renew that one too....Don't worry I'll sleep tonight.

Todd you and Doc know far more about this subject than I. I guess I am guilty of trusting him with my backing because I feel he has earned it in ways I don't need to qualify with anyone...