Yeah. Thank you. Thank you all for screwing my buddy out of his benefits which were going to help him pay for his kid to eat,his car insurance,his rent,his wife.Thanks for screwing my mom out of her benefits. My folks are going to lose their home. Nice going. Thanks a lot.I could go on and on with examples of folks I know,good hard working folks who have been doing everything in their power to find gainful employment,with lackluster results,only to have the rug yanked out from under them with what was the only income coming in to barely keep their heads above water. Yep. Man I love seeing my mom cry every day because they have tried everything under the sun to keep our family home. Fuckin awesome. Thanks a bunch,assholes.

Just had to vent. Figured the dark side was a good place to air out my grievances.

The GOP does not have enough votes in either house to kill anything. The Democrats control everything. Be it noted, I am sympathetic your beef.

Yes, I am aware of the 60/40 thingy in the Senate.

Avid,
Sorry about your parents. Please do not take this personal, as each situation is unique and I really feel for anyone in their situation. Trust me, I have struggled myself. But this is a subject I brought up months earlier. How many extensions are enough and when does it turn into a form of welfare. Just saying. At some point it switches because the money paid in is used up. No one is screwing anyone out of their benefits, they just are not giving them more at a time when it may be smart to. I really am not sure how I feel about extending the benefits, as it may be benefical to the economy in general, but to say an extension is deserved or expected. Sorry, I cannot agree. As a self-employed person dealing with real estate and construction, many of the people I know are really suffering, but are not going to get a cent. Why should unemployed people continue to get benefits that are beyond earned? If they do, are you about to offer it to self employed construction workers, real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and others whose industry collapsed?

So because congress (both sides)refused to piss away more of our money EXTENDING benefits it's the politicians fault? Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't it already been extended to 80 weeks? Your telling me your friend and your parents couldn't find a job in over a year and a half? Sounds to me as though they have recieved enough help and need to take some personal responsibility here. While I feel for your parents, there are always jobs for those willing to work. Walmart, costco and home depot are almost always hiring.
If you want to be angry, that's fine, but be angry at the right people.

Things wouldnt be so bad for so many people if they werent so far in debt with CC's, and huge mortgages later in life. F*** the Joneses, happiness is owning everything you have and being able ride out the tough times on your own.

Like said above, there is less desirable jobs available for those with willing to work. It really pizzes me off everytime I hear of someone losing thier job and sitting in that big house doing nothing but stewing and collecting a check, when they should put a for sale sign up and hit the road looking for work.

Americans, both citizens AND politicians have completely forgotten how to utter the words...."I CAN'T AFFORD IT."

You know I see AA's point as most of the others. That said I view this as only the first of many of these things as we have borrowed ourselves into a hole that our kids will not get out of without a lot of pain.

Don't know the answer and the same old R & D blaming the each other will stop not that far down the road because sometime after 2014 the health care, medicare, soc sec, ( boomers retiring ) mess is something we can not barrow our way out of.

AA the hurting is just starting as we have as nation elected officials " who will help us " which is good until like a philosopher wrote, " democracy will fail when over 50% of the population learn they can vote themselves into the treasury" ( could have the quote verbiage off a little / been a while )


We are about there.

WRONG. These people have been doing the footwork. Maybe there are job opportunities in your area. I know too many people in California who are losing their homes. These are good hardworking people. They have been doing the footwork. The system has failed. But we're still overseas fighting a war aren't we. That costs money. Let's help Haiti. Oops major oil spill. Screw the American people. Meanwhile the politicians get their hookers and blow.

Are you insinuating that my folks are doing just that? They work and are still losing their home. Boy don't you just have it all figured out for everybody else! I knew this would get interesting. Go on HOOKUP tell me more about how fucked up my friends and families work ethic is.

AA, what's your answer? This situation is hitting you and your family hard. What's the answer?

not AA, but the answer is to not let politicians be so damn selective when it comes to giving a crap about the deficit.

we are in a major crisis where the government can help stimulate the economy by giving money directly to unemployed people who will then directly spend it... much like republicans like to talk about the effects of tax cuts. the only difference imo is that the recipients of this stimulus are out of work, not wealthy, and in republican think somehow deserve it because they are "spoiled" by getting unemployment checks.

but the "i got mine" party is blocking any real help for americans in hope of winning seats in november. it's despicable but god forbid we don't add anything to the deficit... unless it means reducing tax cuts to the wealthy or wars.

It is dinner time but.................... AA don't know your age but I am 62 and my 1st savings account paid 4% interest. My home mortgage was 12% and I got a deal as it was a 15 yr contract, ( 2nd house VA the 1st ) and what my wife and I could afford was dominated by the interest rates but my present home is 6% thanks to goverment policies but my CD pays 1.8% thanks to goverment policies. It was not always this way, in fact my mother had to barrow the down payment from and attorney ( sorta 2nd ) to finance the farm she and my step father bought. Bottom line is the government altered the economy at a basic level by feeding money to the banks with the federal reserve and created ever cheaper loans for housing as time went on................. until everyone top to bottom got greedy. Now we don't get 8 or 9 % on CD's and save we put it in IRA's or 401k's which do ok unless the stock market tanks, which it did AGAIN. Our monetary system is broke and it will get fixed one way or the other but it will be painful.

When I was young you rented or bought a fixer upper and slowly as you got older worked up in the quality of housing you could afford. Always aware you HAD to make your payment in hard times. Well that 30 year ride is over and despite what politicians say is not coming back. I was reading tonight that the real unemployment rate is over 17% when you factor the long term unemployed. As a people we have went from a thrifty and very conservative financial method borne out of the great depression, to a nation that literally lives on credit. Which is not good but what is killing us is the fact that government has been doing the same X10 and the jig is up. Sometime after 2015 all the taxes presently collected will just cover the interest on the national debt. As a song in the 70's by Ten Years After said " tax the rich, feed the poor, till their is no rich no more " ................. oh yes the next verse was I' d love change world.............

Argue this, argue that, blame the R's, blame the D's which you see on this BB, but all bs aside we as a people at a very basic level altered how we live our lives. The damn problem is it was on borrowed money ........................ I am a boomer and most of us boomers are doing ok. The problem is one, we are leaving one hell of a debt for our grand kids as many of the things we did as a society WAS ON BARROWED MONEY, two we or our bloody kids have never really known super bad times as our grand parents did in the depression and you know what we do not know how to deal with it. The sad thing is I think we are about to learn the hard way.....................

This doesn't mean that you are going to share your goats with KK, does it?

AA, there are plenty of cases of good people going through tough times right now. People caught up in the "I can make those payments" hype have sunk their own ship. "Keeping up with the Joneses" is a dangerous game. I own so damn little new stuff that it is pathetic, but it has kept us pretty much out of the strangle hold of indebtedness. I'm just like most folks.....always want "more, better, or different"......and it's not easy to say "No, I really don't need that."

I have been without, really without, only once.....it was not fun and downright scary. I don't want to go back there. Most of my dilemma was brought on by my own choices.

I hope you find an answer that works for you.

My my Lester just what have the over 50 generation done? Well we ended segregation, advanced the rights of women, broke the concept that it is my country right or wrong and got us out of a war that should have never been, made the concept that race or religion should not disqualify anyone from education opportunities a reality, and advanced beyond intervention the right of free speech and right of a citizen to protest the central government.

Our parents did WWII to preserve democracy, my generation advanced across the board the concept that equality and justice apply to all citizens regardless of race, sex, or religion as never seen before. We advanced economic opportunity for all citizens as never before.

Yup Lester we aren't perfect but the boomers are one hell of run a head of the two generations following.

Aunty,
you bring up a good point about the younger generation being just as stupid with their finances. I guess, the truth is, I have a lot of disdain for the way my own generation is acting. The difference is what salmosalar eluded to. My generation is not in the position that the boomers are. We do not have the wealth or political capital to really change things. We will be judged by our children, just as you are being judged by us. I think the biggest point I would have to make is that your generation is probably the first in the history of the world to leave their children a world with less potentail and hope than when they entered. Having been left with a world full of potential and wealth, they leave it bankrupt and polluted, the entire time blaming someone else. Will our generation leave it worse? That is yet to be seen. At present, we while seem to be starting down that path in some areas, in others we are seeing great strides. My guess is that when I leave this world, we will see great strides made in taking down dams, using alternative fuel sources, feeding the world, and cleaning up the enviroment. In no way, we will be messing it up in the way our parents did. Perhaps we will do it in our own way. That, however, is a chapter no yet written.

Very interesting.....

I will be 50 this year and have no debt (outside of a house payment for 2 more years) and a TON of cool toys...

I have never collected a single dime of unemployment or any other type of assistance.

I worked hard all thru High School and full time since the day I graduated from College.

Scorn away...............

Enjoy your "Cup of Noodles"

BTW......this comment has nothing to do with the OP of this topic.

I feel for Avid and his family....

It is simply a response to the above quoted.

We are looking into solutions ,I'm all for living in the solution not the problem. I have always been taken care of,I have a strong faith that things will turn around for this country. I myself,am doing pretty well with work right now. I just wish I could bail my mom and dad out of their dilemma ,but I just cant.

I am 38 years old. My generation is a bunch of dumbasses. I have always avoided borrowing of any kind. Everything I own,I bought with cold hard cash. I don't own much .

You know what this has actually been a blessing in disguise for me in my own life. I am grateful to have what I have,and I don't take anything for granted anymore. I used to think the world owed me something,I had a bad attitude,well I still can have a bad attitude,but I see light at the end of the tunnel. My folks are putting their house up on the market and hopefully they come out ahead. I'm sure they will.

Thank you BD. I'm not looking for sympathy,we stand tall in my family. We have been through a lot,and always come out of it for the better.

.......sun goes down.........crickets...........sun comes up.............

Getting in the way...........interesting point of view.

salmosalar.... I am really looking forward to your future reports on how YOU and your generation are progressing in making it all better.

Your generation help carry on the "voice for change" and elected the current Administration.

I am sure the "younger views" of the current Administration will solve all of the problems...including the massive debt incurred over the last 18 months.

BTW...... I am not blaming all of the country's problems on BO.

Politicians on both sides of the isle can raise their hands and take credit for their piece of the mess.

However simply lumping all people together based on age is as ridiculous as lumping all people together by any other "profiling" method.....

In addition, I am happy to have been able to pay into the unemployment system for all this years. I am sure it will be there if I ever need it....NOT

I turn 50 in October.
Like Big Daddy, I have little debt.
Home & vehicles are paid for.
Worked full time since age 18, never collected a day of unemployment in my life.
I've had a paycheck waiting every Thursday since 1978.
If I succeed or fail in this life, it ain't the democrats or the republicans fault ...It is mine.
Work has always been priority one, it feeds and supports every other thing in my life.
My wife of 20 years sometimes gets frustrated that I won't call in sick or miss work days for certain family functions.
Responsibility and a strong work ethic was something my father tried to pound into me even he was a rather poor role model at times.

Being somewhat intelligent with my estate will hopefully give a nice jump start to my son when my wife & I die.
This home is not mine to refinance and play with, buying new toys & trips, it is the only financial legacy that I can give my son.
I can't afford to send him to fancy colleges, he's not that kind of kid anyway.
So if I can leave this world with a knowledge that my son will benefit down the road, I'd consider that rather comforting in these uncertain times.
I hope that he can hand down my gift to his children as well.
Debt makes you a wage slave, with heavy debt a person will never know freedom.
The debt crisis in this country is frightening for so many families, hopefully it won't kill this country as well.

Salmosalar:


Trying to ascribe any particular behavior or moral code to any large group is silly and intellectually lazy. It's a tendency often found in bigots, racists and others of diminished mental capacity. All blacks have rhythm. Jews are cheap. Italians are gangsters. Rubbish! My age group had heros, bums, fools, scholars and a lot of average Joes, just like my dad’s age group and yours. There are lots of silly things said here but your remark on the over 50 crowd is definitely in the top 10 percent. Maybe we should assume your age group is not too bright?

Dave,

You have to type slower.....

Salmosalar may not be able to read that fast.....

Salmosalar....do your age group a favor and shut the hell up.

Your embarrassing them.

I hope Obama gives you everything that you think you deserve.

However, I have to wonder if you could handle it...

On a side note....

salmosaler...did you go to college and if so was it at Evergreen or Western?

KK....you crack me up.....LOL

I'll most likely be dead and gone by then so what the hell do I care.....

Just as long as I make it long enough so the "Red Sox" guy has someone to scorn.....I'll be happy.............LOL

Go Repuli_crats.......



Damn....your right....something does smell in here.

I wonder which one of us 50 and over types [censored] their pants?

Or could it be a 30 something with a steaming load of [censored] in their diaper....

Oh well....the dark side has been entertaining tonight.

Avid----I hope Obama sends mommy and daddy a check soon.

And the French, Belgians, Dutch, Italians, Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese ................... ah all of them as they are all in stages of trouble except Swedes and Germans. Take a look at the Russian model and see if that works, lot of oil money in the new Russia. Your going to be running out of role models soon, but wait China. It is propping up our national debt, supplying us with cheap goods that destroys manufacturing in the USA, AND is on the cutting edge of green technology. Just have to ignore those pesky coal fired power plants and we have the next great socialist utopia where everyone thinks like you. Just a little acre of paradise for ya.

Maybe your just a real good troll(er).....

Oh and thank you for "leading" us all into the future.

My old tired body will rest a lot easier tonight.............LOL

It's late......I got to take my Geritol and head to bed........God I hope I wake up in the morning.....

Hanky, don't mistake the rise in "conservatives" as a rise in "Republicans"...the only group more disdainful of the Repugnicans than Progressives are actual Conservatives...and I'll take it one step further and say that if you consider yourself a "conservative" and vote for our current crop of Republicans, then that's about as smart as a bowl of ice cream voting to be protected by Rosie O'Donnell.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. I'll be down in your neck of the woods the first week in September...let's have a meal?

Very true indeed Todd.


I often ask myself, in this entire country is there ONE electable conservative that is well educated. articulate, doesn't jam religion down people's throat, has good environmental beliefs, strong on 2A, is fiscally conservative, and is a tad toward the center enough to attract disgruntled democrats without ugly skeletons in their closets?

Seems like the impossible dream.

Agreed-

This nation could sure use a Teddy Roosevelt!

Some Teddy quotes-

"A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car; but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad."

A man who is good enough to shed his blood for the country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards.


Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.


Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or leave the country.


And could you see one of today's Republicans say this........

It is essential that there should be organization of labor. This is an era of organization. Capital organizes and therefore labor must organize.


And one that speaks quite nicely to todays America...........

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.


and one just for KeyKey.................

The most practical kind of politics is the politics of decency.

Sorry, I do not know from whom I am plagiarizing this anecdote:


A self-important college freshman walking along the beach took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen resting on the steps why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.

“You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one” the student said loud enough for others to hear. “The young people of today grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, and man walking on the moon. We have nuclear energy, ships and cell phones, computers with light speed….and many more.”
After a brief silence, the senior citizen responded as follows: ‘You’re right son. [not in his politics] We didn’t have those things when we were young….so we invented them. Now! You arrogant little sh’t what are you doing for the next generation?

1000% correct Todd.

Something I've been trying to get across here for a while now,.....some don't listen all that well.

Several years back a guy doing these work group things had a exercise he had all do.

1st up identify your party of choice ( had to pick one and it went about 60 / 40 D / R )

2ND went through a series of questions as to your beliefs on taxes, government, about the full spectrum.

3rd compared each of our results with present party positions.

All pretty normal so far except guess what. About 2/3 who said they were R's made choices that were pretty much Libertarian. About 2/3 of the D's ended being more closely aligned in thought to the Green Party. That was the purpose of it I guess. Our political system is designed to protect the present two major parties. Yet if people really voted there own beliefs neither of them could win a election.

Just so I walk the walk here I ended up being rather conservative in it. Which put me at the edges of being a Libertarian ( lost me on the military ) and the Green Party as my views on a citizens social responsibilities move me that way. That was a real shocker for me but it made sense, I guess but I never viewed myself as a Libertarian / Green. But what I find so unbelievably laughable is reading and listening the so called D & R folks rant about the two parties and how one is better than the other. Break the power of special interest ( business, labor, all the above ) feeding money to candidates AND require the budget be balanced ( except in a time of declared war ) so our elected officials can't buy OUR votes but rather have to make the tough decisions ................ would not that be something to see............. elected office holders that actually addressed problems with solutions that had to work.

The other thing the guy did was outline Senator X positions then had us identify what party we thought they came from and state. Now not to do a D&R thing but this one blew me away. Went like this, a New England R is more Liberal than a Southern D. A Midwest D is more conservative than a Florida R. The purpose of this was for us to understand the great diversity of thought and history in our nation AND HOW THE PRESENT TWO PARTIES HAVE PERVERTED IT. What a traditional conservative is ( Barry Goldwater ) or Libertarian ( Ron Paul ) and tradition Liberal is ( FDR ) are absolutely in conflict with the present two parties we have.

I think it was Newsweek that recently pointed out that not even Reagan would be considered a Reagan Republican today.

Not to hijack my own thread here but my folks are putting the house up on the market Tuesday. They are going to come out of it ahead I think. As for me I'm broke till friday.

The working class always gets screwed by the Republicants.

You guy's really need to take the blinders off, the unemployed aren't getting screwed by the R's, let's face it, they are getting screwed by both the D's and the R's. The D's are no more willing to pass the R's proposal to extend benefits than the R's are to pass the D's!! Here's what the R's had to say on the issue, which in turn was shot down by the D's:

Press Releases
Jun 24 2010
Extending Benefits Without Extending the Debt
WASHINGTON, DC – U.S. Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell made the following statement Thursday regarding a short-term extension of unemployment Insurance benefits, COBRA subsidy, flood insurance program, small business lending program, and 2009 poverty guidelines:

“The Majority Leader wants to make this debate about Republicans opposing something.
“The only thing Republicans have opposed in this debate are job-killing taxes and adding to the national debt.
“We’ve offered ways of paying for these programs, and we’ve been eager to approve them.
“What we’re not willing to do is use worthwhile programs as an excuse to burden our children and our grandchildren with an even bigger national debt than we’ve already got.
“So the biggest reason the cloture vote we just had failed is because Democrats simply refuse to pass a bill that doesn’t add to the debt.
“That’s the principle they’re really fighting for in this debate.
“I’ll even prove it.

“In a moment, I’ll offer a one-month extension of the expired Unemployment Insurance benefits, COBRA subsidy, flood insurance program, small business lending program, and 2009 poverty guidelines.

“This extension would be fully paid using the very same stimulus funds that Democrats just voted — almost unanimously — to redirect for these purposes. Let me repeat that: we would pay for this extension with a Democrat-approved stimulus offset.

“If the Democrats object to extending these programs using their own stimulus offset to pay for them, then they'll be saying loud and clear that their commitment to deficit spending trumps their desire to help the unemployed.

“So let’s be clear about the principle that’s really at stake here.

“Are Democrats willing to extend these programs without adding to the debt? That’s the real question in this debate.”

So what happens, the D's shoot it down because it was an R proposal.

Let's face it, THE SYSTEM IS BROKE and you can point all the fingers you want, but the cause of it being broke is coming from BOTH sides!!!

I would love nothing more than to do away with the R and the D in front of a candidates name ..... no parties ...... run on your merits and may the best person win ( I know it's a pipe dream that will NEVER happen) and if you don't do what's best for the PEOPLE, we will vote your arse out too!

Maybe this attempt to extend unemployment assistance will gain traction, being that is proposed by another R does it have a chance?

NewsHome / Newsroom / News Jun 30 2010
Brown Offers Bill To Break Logjam On Funding For State Programs Without Raising Taxes Or Increasing National Debt
WASHINGTON, DC – Today, U.S. Senator Scott Brown (R-MA) will introduce the Fiscally Responsible Relief For Our States Act of 2010. This bill would break the logjam on funding for unemployment assistance, FMAP and summer jobs without raising taxes or adding to the national debt.

The bill would be fully paid for by using unspent and unobligated funds from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) and by cutting wasteful and unnecessary federal spending in other areas.

Hey, is that the same American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) that the Rs fought tooth and nail against? The one they said wouldn't help out Americans?

Go figure.

And the first attempt by the R's to utilize funds from it to extend unemployment assistance was shot down by the D's ........ go figure!

Job report coming out soon will tell the story. Huge portion of the job increases lately were census workers and subtract them the last quarter gain was small.

This is the catch 22. You can continue to try and prop up state and local governments that have stretched themselves out rather than cut. Or redirect federal & state spending toward working folks from the private sector that have been hammered and suspend non critical federal and state programs. Then you have have targeted tax increases and reductions aimed at economic targets and job growth. Which is what this last trillion stimulus was NOT.

It is going to happen sooner or later anyway but later I think. What makes me wonder though is the blue dog D's, they appear to be saying enough is enough to BOTH sides. We can only hope that the moderates of both parties can come together and force the issue both ways. Give the blue dog D's credit they hit first but they have to get through the next election cycle and that looks tough.

You dont call it a "stimulus" bill anymore. Remember hank.....it is now the "American recovery and reinvestment act". Kind of like changing the name of a "turd" to an "instant wieght loss, relief of stomach pains, great for fertilizer, happy happy fun biscuit".

It's all in the presentation.

Why does it matter if the jobs are government? Don't gov't employees spend their money around town just like everyone else? The bottom line is: the more people spending money, the better the economy becomes.

Just imagine how many more jobs would have been lost without the stimulus. Most notable economists have said the stimulus brought us back from the brink of financial ruin. Many even claim that the real problem is that the stimulus wasn't big enough.

What the - HOLY SH!T!

Jesus Christ.............Red I am going back to drinking. What does it matter if they are goverment employees..............

No, really. For the sake of turning the economy around, why does it matter who signs your paycheck? It's still basic economics: the more people that spend money buying things, the more demand for products. The more demand for products, the more jobs. The more jobs, the more people with money to buy things.

[rant]
The problem most people have with government employees is that it's your tax dollars going to pay them to buy things. Them being people like cops, firefighters, EMT personnel, military, school teachers, etc. All middle class kind of folks. But those same people won't bat an eye going into the local Home Depot to buy some widget that's been marked up 300%. That mark up? CEO tax. People don't seem to care that the money they spend on many things has an inherent tax that puts the CEO in the upper 1%, PLUS dividends to other 1%'ers.

I know, I know; you choose to buy that widget, you don't choose to pay the salary of public employees. So it all boils down to an "all about me" control issue. Some just can't stand the thought of someone else telling them they need to pay to support so-and-so.

It's called society for a reason. [/rant]

Well if you are in the Army then you need to take advantage of their physiological counseling because frankly your brain has a severe malfunction that normal processes will not resolve for you. If your not military get help someplace...........................

All wingnuts have is insults... 'cause facts continually elude them.

Guess that makes KK the king of all wingnuts

KK, how does it feel to be such a Drunk loser ? It must be real painfull to look at yourself in the mirror. You epitomize the angry Left, and are nothing but a coward. You would do yourself a big favor if you would seek the help you sorely need.

Obama on the stimulus: Hey, at least unemployment’s not at 15%


Remember back before he was sworn in, when his economic team was pushing that chart that showed unemployment topping out at eight percent or so if we gave him whatever moneybomb he asked for? Those days are looooong gone; now, instead of talking about how much higher the unemployment rate is than he thought it’d be, we’re talking about how much higher it could have been without that $787 billion bomb. And the nice thing about that, of course, is that he can slap any horrifying figure he wants on his worst-case scenario to make the current figures look rosy. For the moment he’s restricting himself to “12 or 13 or 15 percent,” but if he’s staring at a giant Republican wave come October, I bet that estimate will bump up to 20 or 25 percent in no time. Keep moving those goalposts, champ.
Oh, by the way: Not only is it entirely untrue that “every economist who’s looked at it said that the recovery [act] did its job,” but not even every Keynesian who’s looked at said it did its job. Click the image to watch....


http://hotair.com/archives/2010/06/30/obama-on-the-stimulus-hey-at-least-unemployments-not-at-15/

Harry Reid Blocks Bill to Extend Unemployment Benefits with Unspent Stimulus Funds]

The Senate failed once again late Wednesday to advance a plan to restore jobless benefits for people out of work more than six months, leaving millions of unemployed workers in limbo until after the July 4 recess.

The measure fell one vote shy of the 60 needed to end a Republican filibuster. Sen. George V. Voinovich (R-Ohio) said he was prepared to provide that vote, but that Democrats had rejected his request to pay for at least half of the $34 billion measure with unspent funds from last year's stimulus package.

"Democrats are more interested in having this issue to demagogue for political gamesmanship than they are in simply passing the benefits extension," Voinovich, who is retiring, said in a statement. "I came to the table with a fair compromise and the ball is in their court."

Mitch McConnell asked for the Senate's consent to pass a two-month extension of unemployment benefits that would be paid for with unspent stimulus funds. And Senate Democrats, led by Harry Reid, objected. They wouldn't even meet Voinovich halfway. Why not? If there's a better explanation than Voinovich's claim that they ....
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/harr...-stimulus-funds

Is there anything in these extensions that starts to lower the payment? Seems to me that if someone can't get a job in a year or more, that it becomes more and more likely that a lower paying job and lifestyle is in the future. Wouldn't it be smarter to continue the payments but at lower and lower rates, maybe with provisions to subsidize any lower paying job to encourage people to be able to contribute to the economy, if possible.

What needs to be done is quit giving extensions! If these people are cut off without a goddamn dime, I think starvation will be a great motivator for finding a job. I have a neighbor who just had his truck and boat repoed, house is next, because he refuses to take a job that pays less than he previously made, which ironically pays more than his unemployment. He's in Real Estate and won't even consider a job in another field. He used to be a software engineer/developer for Intel. The guy is obviously lazy and full of excuses, unfortunately he's taking his family down with him.

Contrary to right-wing mythology... nobody, and I mean NOBODY can actually live off of unemployment for any extended period of time. The cap here in WA is $600 a week I believe? And to make that, you have to have been earning more than 50k a year. The national average of unemployment benefits being paid out is about $200 a week. Yeah boy... them lazy deadbeats are livin' it up for sure on that fat stack!

Unemployment isn't some welfare giveaway either. The money for it has been paid into a fund by the employee and the employer. It's called Unemployment INSURANCE after all.

The thing that continually amazes and saddens me about the right-wingers is that they ALWAYS think their fellow poor and middle-class citizens are tryin' to get one over on them. Yet they continually allow those who really ARE gettin' over on them to keep them distracted and angry at the wrong people? They happily go through life as political and corporate dupes and I just don't get it?

Why do war supplementals have to increase the deficit Hank?

Why do corporate tax giveaways have to increase the deficit Hank?

The Stimulus money has already been specifically allocated... and you republitards would be screamin' even more bloody murder if the Dems took money away to pay for something else.

A LOT of hard-working Americans are still in dire financial straights thanks to 30 years of Reaganomics. WHY can't you wingnuts put the hate aside for just a little while for the good of your fellow working-class citizens and the country as a whole?

If unemployment benefits help to stimulate the economy, why won't the Deems use unspent "stimulus" money to finance those extensions? Why does it have to increase the deficit?


Sitting down Hankster?

I agree.

But here's the thing. When Obama took over we were losing jobs at a truly scary pace. I don't know-no one knows - what would have happened if we hadn't done the bailouts and passed the stimulus. (Remember at the time of the bailouts the Rs were fully on board. In fact, Bush asked for no strings on his massive plan.) We might have had a truly awful outcome, possibly even worse than the great depression, had we done nothing.
The scary thing is we may just get to see what happens when we stop the stimulus money. I can’t see things getting better, but time will tell. I think we are at a truly worrisome crossroads. If we do nothing I expect a second perhaps even worse recession. If we pour money on it we will be pouring gasoline on the conflagration that is our national debt. What do you think we should do?

Unemployment isn't some welfare giveaway either. The money for it has been paid into a fund by the employee and the employer. It's called Unemployment INSURANCE after all.

So where exactly is the deduction on your pay stub for unemployment? In Oregon the EMPLOYER pays ALL of the unemployment contributions, the employee pays NONE! Perhaps Washington is different?

I don't think anyone believes people are living it up on unemployment, but many are becoming comfortable and refuse to look for work untill it expires, then complain they have no job and extentions ran out.

Why do corporate tax giveaways have to increase the deficit Hank?

4salt,
Here is a stumper for ya.. Who do corporations employ and what do their employees/share holders pay ? If the corporations make more money, that will create more ________ and or ________, which will increase the amount of ________ paid to the goverment.

BTW, I know sever people who have lived for long periods of time (>6 months) on unenjoyment just fine. You want to know how... They lived within their means. Which meant giving up a few luxuries, but they managed to keep a roof over their head and food in their kids mouths.

Its not fukin hate, I am just fed up working my ass off to pay for people who feel it necessary not to work their ass off and who have made shitty life decisions and expect me to pay for them. [censored] em!

You have to be able to think a little in the abstract. True that the deduction does not appear on your paystub, but it is deducted from your "worth" to your employer. For instance, if your employer pays $10/month for your unemployment insurance, that's $10/month he can't pay you in payroll. Ergo, it's a deduction.

What if we replace the words "unemployement insurance", with corporate tax? Does that still work?

So therefore when I pay a guy $20 an hour, insurance, retirement, unemployment, vacation, and other various taxes, I'm Really paying this guy $40-$50 an hour. I pass that on to my customers. And they wonder why my labor rate is $80 an hour.... Some people think We small corporations can afford it. With all these expenses small wonder why few want to hire

Aunty, Many really have nothing to lose. Others believe the govt will help them out. I've been running into several guys while fishing who have been out of work, maybe the wife works, maybe not, but they tell me they can pay the bills and still have a little extra money for gas/bait.
How many in your county commute to another county? I do.

I am just fed up working my ass off to pay for people who feel it necessary not to work their ass off and who have made shitty life decisions and expect me to pay for them.


We don't know that they made shitty life decisions. What we do know is that they were actively employed and contributing to society, but now that they aren't.

So you naturally ASSume it's THEIR fault and not corporate America and jackass politicians????

Sure, not all, but I'll bet they compose a fair percentage. I think we all know a few that fit into that category.

BD things have went on long enough that the employee / employer funds are used up for many claims, that is the reason for the federal extensions. Tax payers are footing the bill. It is needed though but...........

Well here goes nothing. Those who know me know I retired last year but I could have drawn unemployment in fact I could have drawn my pension and unemployment at the same time, all I had to do was a job search and you work around that by doing most online. If I had wanted to sign up for a retraining program could have stretched out things even more with the COBRA set up in the mix. It is really a complex system but once you get it down you can run it 24 months or more out. ( oh yes mine was $600 a week before taxes ) .

Bottom line for me was hell I wanted to retire and didn't care if it cost $1000 a year on my pension to go out especially when my severance paid my medical to 65.

Now if I had wanted to I could have done this. Taken severance paid off my medical, NOT got my pension going but rather draw unemployment for 18 months ( with extensions looks like two years or more now ) with ZERO intent of taking any job, signed up for retraining which would have extended it out further. I have a friend ( went a little before me ) who did just that so he could run things out and not use his savings until he got at Soc Sec.

Bottom line is many, many, people are desperate and need help. Others run unemployment out before they go for work simply because they can and by picking up cash on jobs that aren't reported do ok. In this state they can not force you take a job down the pay scale so you can ride it out on unemployment. Friend of mine once decided she wanted the summer off anyway when her job left so did just that. Said at 40 it was like being 16 again not having to work.

As in many things argued on this BB everyone is right and nobody is wrong just depends on your circumstances! It is a system designed as a safety net that works but it has a lot of room for abuse in it.

So what if some small percentage is happy to try to live on unemployment? Many, I suspect most, worked for years, got the American dream of their own home and were getting by till the economy went in the tank. Now they are desperately trying to hold on to the dream and might be able to make it if we help out with unemployment.

If they do lose everything, we will be seeing more of every type of social problem and that will cost us in the long run.

Not everyone can find a job. That’s what a higher unemployment rate means. Did Americans all of the sudden get lazy after the banks crashed? No! Things got tougher. Do any of you honestly believe there a decent job out there for everyone? If so ,was that also true during the great depression. Did Americans just get lazy then?

I've hired and fired about 100+ guys over the last 5 years. It seems the ones that work hard, still have jobs whether or not they work with me or not. Most of them have been fired or let go because they were lazy or had substance abuse problems. I don't have a problem with Unemployment insurance, what I do have a problem with are lazy people. There were alot of people, employed in industries they were completely unqualified for and were able to skate by. Now that times are lean, the fat is getting trimmed and tumors removed. In the end of the day, I pay a [censored] load of taxes for people who have made shitty life decisions, whether is be not getting enough edcuation, not keeping their legs closed, or leveraging them selves into debt beyond what they are capable of living on.

While Louisiana has CNN trying to shake everyone down while enjoying a 6.9% unemployment rate after the oil spill and moratorium, nearly 2 million people with no $100 million escrow account to turn to are being place in desperate circumstances and the TV machines barely mentions it. Moreover, the democrats on the hill remain silent. They should be in front of a camera 24/7 just like the GOP would be if the Dems were kicking 2 million people into the streets with no options.



I wish we still had more guys like this around:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration".
Abraham Lincoln

My previous company took hired out of the temp halls, never hardly ever interviewed anyone for labor/carpenter positions. Either they worked or they didn't, most didn't. When looking for more qualified help, I reviewed several hundred resumes when looking for foreman or superintendents since, most applicants who claimed to be qualified had serious issues in their job histories that never got them to the table. In general, employees with long term stability seem to have kept their jobs or found new ones easily. People who change jobs/ careers every year or 2 and have no higher edcuation are much more likely to be unemployed.

BTW, I am an Asshole but if a person works hard, I've always respected that and looked out for them and done all I could to keep them employed, whether it be with who I work for or finding them a job with a company I have a relationship with.

If I remember right after 20 weeks, even if your [censored] canned, you can still get unemployement.

Speaking for just the engineering industry... Prior to the recession it was almost impossible to find decent help. All you needed was a certificate from UW, WSU or Shick Shadel,... Hell, it didn't even matter if you were down syndrome and voted republican, you could land a job anywhere... all we needed were bodies to fill budgets!

But, times are a changin and a persons reputation follows them around... The dead wood of yesterday are the unemployed of today. For most of the folks that I've seen get let go it is time for a career change anyway but you will never be able convince them of that...

It would be nice to have the same growth/workload issues that we had before but then again its nice to be able to take a vacation once and a while too...

Well here is what I don't get ...... the "Stimulus" bill was basically to help out the folks right? It sure isn't creating jobs .... 400K more gv jobs, but 2.6 mil less civ jobs = a net loss of 2.2 mil jobs since this bill was passed ( remember that unemployment wont go above 8% if you do as I say line????? Hasn't worked out too well has it). Well if it isn't creating jobs than why not use the money that is not spent to help out those folks that can't find work? If the D's are so concerned about the unemployed, they have an avenue to help them, why won't they do it????

As I said earlier I think the Ds are wrong not to use unspent stimulus money to fund an unemployment benefits extension. But what the stimulus did is something we will never know. We were shedding jobs at a much faster rate before the stimulus. Would that have improved without the stimulus? Who knows, but it doesn't seem likely. I do know there are a ton of highway projects going on, many funded by TARP funds. How bad would it be if all those construction workers were not working?

Aug 2008: -84,000
Sep 2008: -159,000
Oct 2008: -240,000 <---- Market collapse
Nov 2008: -533,000
Dec 2008: -524,000
Jan 2009: -598,000 <---- Obama inaugurated
Feb 2009: -651,000
Mar 2009: -663,000 <---- ARRA (Stimulus) starts
Apr 2009: -539,000
May 2009: -345,000
Jun 2009: -467,000
Jul 2009: -247,000
Aug 2009: -216,000

I, too, have met people who are on unemployment that love it. Some were boeing employees who were working 60 hour weeks for several years. When the layoff came, they loved it. Drained it the best they could, then signed up for reeducaton. After 2 years the economy changed and they signed back up with boeing for their old jobs. Also met people whose spouse worked and had all the money gained was extra anyway. Others are just in a world of hurt. Have a freind whose husband is a retired jet pilot. I was told McDonalds turned him down as over qualified. What's the answer, maybe switch extensions to need based, offer income supplement for lower paying jobs. The idea of trusting people indefinitely, however, does make me a little uneasy. Especially since there are plenty of people who are hurting just as much who were self employeed.

I'm glad I don't associate with lazy f'ers and system-workers. Some here need to upgrade their list of associates.

When we had an open Cutomer Serice Rep. position open last month, we had 80 applications submitted, with several coming from as far away as Kansas. People are trying hard to find employment that doesn't exist.

If the banks were too big to fail, then surely the country is too big to fail. If ever there was a reason to accumulate more debt, this is it. We built up 10 trillion in debt on assorted bullsh!t and now isn't the time to get all tight with the purse strings, IMO.

I lost a job I'd had for 20 years, and found myself on unenjoyment for 6 weeks. I've never felt so without direction and purpose in my life. Sure, I went fishing a few times when I felt like it, but it was hard for me to enjoy fishing when I knew that I should be out pounding the pavement. So that's what I did, and was able to find a new position a few rungs higher up the ladder than I was before.

But I realize that just because it worked for me doesn't mean everyone has been able to replace a lost job. And lots of them are honest, hard-working individuals. If the guv can't help them, why could they help banks and GM?

That quote from Lincoln is awesome.

shhh, don't you know it's unamerican to speak out against corporations?

bailouts for labor? why, it's their own fault for not working. Instead of a manufacturing job, you could be a wal-mart greeter or "manufacture" burgers.

if we wanted to bail out labor, we should start by protecting our markets and workers from virtual slave labor and less stringent health and safety regulations overseas. Of course, this is unamerican because republicans say that what's good for the corporation is good for the country.

Should everyone work for the goverment then? Last time I checked almost everyone I know who doesn't work for the goverment works for a corporation, even the self employed ones have a type S corp set up. If businesses don't have money, there is no jobs.

No, if there is no demand for a product there are no jobs. Businesses having money is not what create jobs. Demand for products create jobs. And it isn't only a corporation that is able to create/manufacture products.

If you don't have a Job, then there is no money, and reduced demand.

Who creates/manufacturer products besides corporations and farmers?

And due to liability laws, most are incorporated in some shape or form.

Correct, but unfortunately voters and elected officals are too Fukking stupid figure that out. Try and build a new building for a business, even in a town who's economy is in the shitter and you'll find out rather quickly that goverment is not the answer, its the problem...

Houses are easy, try and build commercial/manufacturing anywhere it seems as of late.

Oh AM the increased taxes is from urban growth has been the holy grail of local governments. Lived in this state most of my life and compared to what it was when I was in high school this state stinks. You could get a job 2 hours after you quite one when I was 25 and Seattle was one of the best working class cities in the country. I mean it was really something special and the surrounding areas were a natural play ground.

All BS aside, all that growth has done nothing but destroy everything natural, degrade the quality of the urban area's, screw up the water & air, in fact we have went from a state known for charting it's own way and independent citizens to a bunch of sheep waiting to get fleeced like the rest.

Nah AM doubtful the growth has been good for anything but politicians.

I am in the same biz. I agree whole-heartedly with your post. When I graduated, I think the guy who hired me just checked for a pulse and gave me a contract.

My boss keeps saying "The 'B' team is unemployed, and they are not allowed back in this office". In this area, even some of the A-team is unemployed. Luckily I have kept my A team intact, but every now and then I hear that a person I have coveted before is floating around and I just wish some huge project would drop so I could pick them up.

Mason county does have a little growth. I believe both of the new Bio-Gen facilities being built there, are only being built because of the Fed money available for the 'green' power. If they get caught up in red-tape (bearucratic-environmental) past the fed-money deadline for construction, they will not get completed.

Precisely the arguement I made above when others rail against gov't employees.

You need to broaden your understanding of the concept of "product." Security is a product (firefighters, police, military), education is a product (teachers, professors), recreation is a genre of products (game wardens, park rangers, etc.) So, the government itself employs many that produce products that you rely on everyday. The more people that move here to occupy the houses built by private contractors, the more products will be necessary from government employees. The more people laid off, the more product required by government.

But many products are over priced or are not a good value......

But, no matter how hard they try to make it so, the governement "product" will never be self sustaining...

Like?

And 'overpriced' according to whom?

Much like those widgets marked up 300% for the CEO tax, yet you don't complain of that.

I disagree. For instance, let's take engineers. You can sit home and engineer crap all day long, but if there's no demand for your product, there's no market. Ergo, engineering is not self sustaining. In reality, government is the only entity that is self sustaining. Government prints money, controls the value, and can provide services to itself.

Communism. Recognized government that has proven in history to be self sustaining. Government that uses pure socialism as a fiscal principle is argueably self sufficient.

Show me any private company/corporation that has survived without government.

gh, your request is unreasonable in-as-much as government insists on getting into any/all business, hence no business is allowed to succeed on it's own merits.
To me there is a big difference between government "assistance" and government control.
Government should, IMO, remain quietly in the background and come forward only in cases of emergency (I would use the word "need", but there are plenty of interpretations of that word....kind of like "interesting" )
Benevolent dictatorship is not....repeat NOT what this country is all about. Want jobs? Cut back on the demands placed on the employer. As an employer, he/she is entitled to a profit instead of being sucked dry by demands which spell the death of a company.

Let me add this as an edit: It seems to me that we now live in a time of continual "emergency". We listen to the "Be Afraid" hype promoted by every special interest group imaginable. I'm guessing it comes from most folks never having experienced any sort of real emergency, nor chosen to step into the path of danger because someone needed help.
I'm done.

Slab,

My comments aren't about the United States government, per se, but the idea of government. I was merely countering someone's assertion that government was not self-sustaining. There are examples in history of government types not relying on any outside entity to exist.

It's not so much that a government insists on being involved in businesses' affairs, it's rather that part of government's role is to print and vaule currency. Business depends on that for capital. Business cannot survive without government as a stakeholder.

Better watch it, gh.

Hank is fixin' to throw down.

Hey RR just caught your bit about Green jobs where you are. You know about the only thing Al Gore ever said that made sense was the need to put together a energy program equal to the WWII effort to get away from fossil fuels. SOB is right on that one. You would think the present administration would grab it rather than Cap & Trade, Stimulus that is not one, health reform that is a pile of crap ( hang on libs because on this one your right as a single pay system is the only way to cover everyone and it will still come along )

The technology is out there but is not cost effective as long as the government continues the policy of artificial energy prices. This link is to Bloom Inc and they already build units that are powering buildings. http://www.bloomenergy.com/ The transformation from fossil fuels to alternate and natural gas will transform our country, end dependence on foreign oil, allow our military to return home, restore our balance of payments in trade, AND PROVIDE MILLIONS OF NEW JOBS.

Despite all the bravado from politicians on all sides the simple fact is this, nobody has the balls to lead. Pretty sad but the day is coming that will change things, it is a question of when not if.

Labor Dept. Estimates $7.1 Billion in Overpayments to Unemployed
Overpayment Figure Increases From $4.2 Billion the Previous Year


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/underemployed-overpaid-states-shell-unemployment/story?id=11118137