Anything to get Gary's hatchery non-clipped hatchbox coho back to the spawning gravel....

Keith

I don't have any problems with the "bonk 2", then you are done!!!!! but here's what I see as a problem.

1. Let's say, 5 people in boat.......a,b,c,d, and e.......person "a" bonks his fish but in a Marine area is allow to continue fishing, legally, until the boat limits or they stop fishing at end of day.

2. non-Marine area, which is above 101 bridge in Aberdeen.....same 5 people.......a bonks his fish, legally he is done for the day.

3. Quality of fish gets worse the farther from the marine area you go, sure hate to "have to keep" dark females or old red sided males.

You can probably tell I don't fish the "marine waters", could but choose not to..........thousands of others don't have the ability to fish from a boat............why should they have to take 1st two fish????????? Probably even get a ticket if they released a fish, they didn't view as a quality fish????????

good point.
Ban all boat fishing? That would certainly work, but wouldn't make a lot of people very happy.

It was really hot at Sekiu a few years back and guys were catching and releasing 20 wild fish to get their 2 hatchery fish. We saw atleast half a dozen fish injured swimming on the surface and some belly up, so I email the state on the issue and this was their response. My thought was make a size limit of 24" and daily catch of 3 then get off the water.

Thank you for your email correspondence to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) Fish Program.

The selective coho fishery at Sekiu is designed to harvest hatchery coho while protecting weak coho stocks that cannot sustain the same level of harvest and are in need of additional protection. For the last several years one of the main stocks in need of protection is a stock of coho from the upper Fraser River in British Columbia. This particular stock, Thompson River coho, has been severely depressed in recent years, much like our Puget Sound chinook salmon. Canada and the United States manage salmon based on the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Under that treaty, Canadian catches of Washington fish have been reduced to help recover our weak stocks, and Washington catches of British Columbia fish have been reduced to help recover their weak stocks. In this case, we have agreed to manage Washington fisheries so that we harvest or kill no more than 10% of the forecasted Thompson River coho. The Area 5 fisheries account for the largest share of the U.S. non-tribal impact to Thompson River coho. The impact is based on a 12% mortality rate on sport caught and released coho. That is, one in every 8.3 coho caught and released will die. This value was derived from a number of mortality studies that have been conducted in marine waters and was reviewed and adopted by a group of State and Tribal biologists. Certainly, the actual mortality is variable but the rate of mortality you report seems unusually high. In my personal experience, the proper handling of fish can make a big difference in the release mortality. Our season long monitoring at Sekiu this year shows that approximately 60% to 70% of the coho encountered by anglers were unmarked, which is far different than the 1 in 7 you observed. We do see that the mark rate can be quite variable at times but we must look at the overall average. Based on the accepted mortality rate and observed encounter rates in the fishery, a lot fewer unmarked fish, and specifically, less Thompson River coho would be killed under the current selective fishery than if we allowed both marked and unmarked coho to be harvested given the same season length.

Alternatively to the selective fishery, we could allow any two coho to be harvested as you suggest. Under this scenario, our season would be reduced to less than 30 days, depending on the time we started. So if we started July 1st, we would have to close the fishery before the end of the month. Because the catch rate is much higher in August and September, we might have 3 weeks or less of fishing if we opened August 1st or September 1st. In each of these alternative scenarios, the total summer salmon season would need to be conducted. That is, we would not be able to have our month long chinook selective fishery followed by a month long coho fishery. They would have to occur at the same time. Therefore the season would be reduced from a three month season to a month or less.

Each year, WDFW conducts public meetings to help shape our salmon fisheries while meeting our obligations to the Northwest treaty tribes, Endangered Species Act constraints, and the Pacific Salmon Treaty. We call this process "North of Falcon". The North of Falcon process begins in February and runs through early April each year. During these meetings, the folks who have attended have advocated for the current three month long selective coho fishery scenario rather than the alternative fisheries which would result in a summer fishery less than 30 days. However, if there is a clear consensus from most folks that they prefer the shorter seasons, we would consider them. If you would like to participate in the North of Falcon process and voice your support for the any coho, shorter season scenario, we welcome your input. Deb Kuttel is our coordinator for distribution of meeting locations and times. You can contact Deb at (360) 902-2819 and ask her to put you on the mailing list, or alternatively, email us back and ask to be put on the North of Falcon mailing list.

Thank you for your concern for Washington's resources. We appreciate the great care you use when releasing fish and encourage you to continue to do so. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact Steve Thiesfeld, Puget Sound Recreational Salmon Fisheries Manager at (360) 902-2715.

Read the regs and know the rules, there is no first two rule in grays ahrbor anywhere, yet.

As for releasin fish, don't handle them, don't let them flop on the bank and release them fast and they survive, I would bet that at least 50% survive to make it to where they are going IF they are not bruised and abused before being let go.

gill hooking a salmon???? I have seen it, 3 times in the last 3 years out of probably 1000 fish. So those 3 fish if released are likely to die if you land them, rip the hook out and release them instead of seeing it can't be kept and cutting the leader; Then maybe 1 of them dies.

As for unmarked hatchery fish, I'd like to know where your info comes from. I have worked 3 different hatcheries in Grays harbor marking Coho and we never released one that was not marked. If they have wild fish in their holding pens they need to let them go unless they keep a certain % to diversify the stock. If they are letting go a certain number of hatchery fish to diversify the gene pool then they are. But I would bet it is a very small % of the total fish released.

Chop it anyway you want BUT first two fish was supposed to be what the regs say. I know that some already bounced Monte and they are saying it will be taken care of.

Failure to do that then Kirt Hughes & Ron Warren need to be boiled in oil alive until well done because that was what came out of local NOF. If they backed water or let Oly override things then it still applies. You don't give your word on something then go hide when crap flies.

At the Olympia, Grays Harbor, NOF meeting I recall wording like "Anglers must retain the first two coho, and stop fishing."

This wording was for below Fuller Bridge, the mouth of the Satsop through October.

Perhaps WDFW Staff could make this correction in an update of the regulations, soon. It would greatly clarify the decision to lay off the chinook, thus minimize sportfisher impact on this stock.

Well, the commercials wern't happy with the language, but agreed. The W Bay harvest was not resolved.
I was working, not able to attend the next meeting to see things finalized. I thought the GH issues were set.

I just follow the rules, I don't care if it is bonk first 2 fish. That means I can keep me a couple Chinook. Or is it going to be the first 2 coho? Or is it the first 2 hatchery fish when it switches to hatchery only? Is it supposed to be bonk the first 2 LEGAL fish or just the first 2 fish?

Get the rule fixed and make sure that the rule is correct! I follow the rules because I choose to, mess this up and put in the regs that you have to keep your first 2 fish and not specify it has to be Coho and there will be 1000 dead chinook before they can print an emergency correction.

Oh and BTW, the Wynoochee is closed for salmon for those who haven't heard yet.

I carry a big rubber net and needle nose pliers...

when I have a high fin coho the special net comes out and a little boat side surgical removal goes down. The way I see people net and handle coho (abrasive nets, twisting net bags) its no wonder so many coho are killed.

12% release mortality on ocean fresh coho is ridiculous, doesn't even pass the straight face test.

Anywhere you are catching fire engines, tomato cans, and boots, coho can be released with a very good survival rate, so there's no reason to do the "catch two and go home" rule in those places...in the salt, in the tidewater, in the very lower stretches...that's where at least 50% mortality is the norm, not the exception.

Fish on...

Todd

An interesting report on hooking mortality along the west coast for coho and Chinook in salt water done by DFO-Canada. Hooking mortality varies depending on gear selection and fishing techniques, fish handling, water temps, etc. Saltwater mortality doesn't appear to push the 50% mark and is generally lower.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/csas/Csas/DocREC/1999/pdf/99_127e.pdf

Have no idea where a number like fifty percent comes from, but I have never witnessed anything even close to that. If it were true the river bottom would be littered with bright carcasses. I see one only occasionally. I will say that I killed one for sure, and I knew it when I let it go. I found it the next day shining up from the bottom of a deep pool just downstream from where I released it.

I've been involved in a few tests of this nature over the past 35 years, and the one thing thats constant is the people involved are not random, they know why the test is being done and are working very hard to make it work. Its when you turn the whole population loose with it that the problems start, reminds me of speed limits they works great in a traffic engineers office but then you can just drive down I-5 to see how it really works.

Well I think the 50% applies and does not depending on circumstance. Ever watch charters flag a shaker around or a troller drag a fish around for hours? Many or most perish.

What I am familiar with is Chinook in transition waters in bays and rivers on the coast. 50% mortality would be good if you get them in the bay or bottom tide water and while many will proceed up river they fail to spawn. Bio once explained all biological reasons then said this. Chinook in transition ( females especially ) are coming from salt to fresh, temperatures and environment and it is stressful. Add to it in females they pulling energy from their bodies and putting it into egg development which makes them very vulnerable.

You hook them, fight them, and release them in some manner you wind the clock nature has on them down so far they can not get back the lost strength to spawn. Farther upstream you get them the less the impact and once they harden ( slime ) and are out of transition waters they can take the impacts of C&R with low losses.

There was a C&R study on coho in AK. In the tidewater/lower river the mortality, as I recall, was way over 50%.

Alexandersdottir was one of the authors.

The bonk your first legal fish is currently the rule in the Skok; I think it applies to hatchery steelhead in the upper Columbia, too.

If memory serves, and this is going back to the 70s, the limit on gamefish (anything WDG managed) was whatever you caught, not what you kept. For example, you could catch 2 steelhead. Then, you were done whether you released them or not. Also, had to punch them. Idea was to move folks off the river.

Some studies


http://www.gobages.com/comu/astuces/9/


Vincent, L. D., M. Alexandersdottir, et al. (1993). "Mortality of coho salmon caught and released using sport tackle in the Little Susitna
River, Alaska." Fisheries Research Amsterdam 15(4): 339-356.

Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch) were caught with sport gear in the estuary of the Little Susitna River, southcentral Alaska (USA). Fish were double marked and released. All coho salmon observed migrating through a weir above the estuary and a portion caught in a sport fishery below the weir were examined for marks. A second group of coho salmon were caught using similar sport gear above the estuary. These fish were handled and marked identically as the fish captured in the estuary, except that they were held in a holding pen at the weir with an equal number of coho salmon dip netted at the weir. Coho salmon which were caught and released in the estuary suffered a significantly higher rate of mortality (69%) than did either the coho salmon caught and held above the estuary (12%) or those which were dip netted and held at the weir (1%). Factors that could influence rates of hook-induced mortality were measured at the time of hooking. Hook location, hook removal, and bleeding significantly affected the measured mortality rate.


Bendock, T. and M. Alexandersdottir (1993). "Hooking mortality of chinook salmon released in the Kenai River, Alaska." North American Journal of Fisheries Management 13(3): 540-549.
Short-term (5-d) mortality of chinook salmon Oncorhynchus tshawytscha caught and released in the Kenai River was assessed with radio-telemetry. From 1989 to 1991, 446 adult chinook salmon were tagged with radio transmitters in four experiments. Overall hooking mortality averaged 7.6% and ranged from 10.6% in 1989 to 4.1% in 1991. Mortality was highest for small males ( lt 750 mm mid-eye length) compared with large males and all females. Wound location and bleeding were the factors principally associated with mortality. Survival of chinook salmon that were hooked in the gills or were bleeding was significantly reduced; however, the frequency of these injuries was small in all experiments.
Most mortalities occurred within 72 h of release. These results support the use of hook-and -release regulations in similar freshwater chinook salmon fisheries to reduce sportfishing mortality effectively and achieve spawning escapement goals.

Gjernes, T., A. R. Kronlund, et al. (1993). "Mortality of chinook and coho salmon in their first year of ocean life following catch and release by anglers." North American Journal of Fisheries Management 13(3): 524-539.

The mortality of chinook salmon Oncorhynchus tshawytscha and coho salmon O. kisutch in their first year of ocean life following catch and release by anglers was examined. Five factors were recorded for each landed fish: species, hook type, barb type, injury location, and mortality. For the first time, a recursive causal model was used to analyze hooking mortality data. The data suggest that hooking mortality isbetter described by a two -stage process than by traditional logistic models.
Injury location is affected by hook type and barb type in the first stage, and mortality is affected by injury location and species in the second stage. Overall estimated mortality following release from sportfishing gear was approximately 30% for chinook salmon and 14% for coho salmon.

It’s kind of déjà vuish that the first time I really understood how bad the wild coho mortality could be was fishing the Little Susitna. We were using eggs and hooking one fish after another. These were fish coming in oh=n that tide. I soon realized that these fish were often badly harmed by C&R with bait. Since all we had was bait we stopped fishing after 15 or 20, I wonder now how many of those we killed. According to the study we may have killed 20 fish not counting the six we kept. I’m not proud of that just telling what happened. There were several other anglers near us practicing a lot of C&R on bait hooked coho. I suspect many of those died.

That seems like a place where the first limit landed should end the angler’s day. Not because of the wild, hatchery issue, but simply to avoid killing and wasting big numbers of fish. Farther upstream when they have toughened up perhaps more C&RE could be encouraged.

Did you ever see belly up fish or dead fish in the river?

What do you think the release mortality would have been with a fly rod?

Keith

I have seen well over 100 chinook dead in the river that were fish that were already turning and hooked after they had "hardened" up. The fish were hooked, released because no retention was allowed and they fell to the bottom and died in droves. The game officer estimated that 400 chinook were killed from hook and release in the river in the first week of the season. Condition were not good at all, low water and warm water so that had a significant effect but the mortality rate was estimated at 80% or higher for released fish.

As for fly fishing, longer fight to land them, more stress and more tired fish should equal higher mortality.

Rivrguy:

Are you saying that the "recovery boxes" on the gill net boats aren't very affective?????? If this is true, then "gill net" fishing needs to crease until "protected fish" clear the netting areas. Also maybe more restrictions, on Sports caught fish, needs to be placed in the Marine area until the very same protected fish clear the area..........don't think that would fly but probably a good idea....

I'm having a real problem with no salmon fishing on the Wynoochee...this needs to be addressed by WDFW bio's and addressed at future NOF meetings....