#641537 - 12/07/10 09:59 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Spawner
Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 652
Loc: Bellingham/Socialistic Idaho
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, and according to you 250k adjusted gross income 'really isn't that much', are you trying to say that only those in the bracket above yours are rich ? That's exactly what I'm saying That debate will never find an answer because someone making 100k will say 150k is rich. 500k will say 750k is the line. People think anyone making a buck more a year than they make are 'rich'. We've had this tax structure since when? '03? Why does everyone want to start class warfare now?
My take on the Obama compromise is he's desperate to be re-elected and the economy will prevent that from happening. He's tried the Keynesian approach with little success, QE2 will more than likely fail just as QE1 did. He needs to pull out all the stops now and IF extending the tax cuts for the 'rich' will have any effect on job creation he'll be able to take the credit. It will add to the debt if that's the measure you're using, but cutting payroll taxes (which is part of this compromise and the R's recommended doing during the run-up to the 'stimulus' bill) will put a further strain on SS too. Point being, the focus at this instant is to do everything possible to get the economy moving at a faster clip. We can worry about tax cuts for the 'rich' again when they expire in another two years. Maybe then more members of congress will grow a pair and start working on debt reduction. A less complicated tax structure, like the one from Simpson-Bowles, will make this argument moot. Oh I dunno, maybe it has something to do with the fortunes of wealthy people continuing to grow, meanwhile most of America is struggling to pay bills, jobs are being outsourced by said wealthy people to China and the Philippines, and young men are being blown up in Iraq and Afghanistan in wars to further enrich these people. Just a thought.
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#641553 - 12/07/10 10:24 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
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Most of the extremely wealthy people I've met in my life I would say all have one specific personality trait.. There very good at taking and have no qualms about it..
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#641557 - 12/07/10 10:31 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: SBD]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
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So you think the top 1% are the trolls who feed off the gubimint the most? Dah!!! Chuck I think this is way over your head. Stick to the Purple and gold..... lets hear a little cougar hating... or better yet.......... how about those Sea Hawks?
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. -- Albert Einstein
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#641561 - 12/07/10 10:38 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
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I don't argue that point, if we split all the money in the world up within a year 3% would have the majority of it..Not sure it would be all the same ones that have it now.
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#641574 - 12/07/10 10:55 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Rich people don't spend money that's why they are rich. Believe it or not it's true, really. It's the middle class who keep the country running & the poor - the people who live paycheck to paycheck & would spend a million dollars in a year if you gave it to them. Even if you don't believe that, try & grasp a basic sense of math, it's the sheer #s that make any other argument dumb. Also, tax cuts to the wealthy will NOT create a single job. Why would it? Giving tax breaks...money...to people who won't use it to stimulate the economy is why giving tax breaks to the already rich won't help a damn thing. The funny thing is, the same dumbasses who keep saying it will help the economy to do so are the same dumbasses who keep saying giving TARP funds to banks didn't stimulate the economy...because the banks didn't put it back into the economy. It's funny how they can understand FauxNews' argument about why Obama's Bank Giveaway Fund is a bad idea, and can also easily accept FN's talking point about "job creation" and "economic stimulation" when doing exactly the same thing for the already rich...it's called a "contradiction", one that is typically accepted by one of two types of people. Type 1: Don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, but thankfully have Fox News to tell them what to think, or... Type 2: Know they are full of $hit, but it never really was about the truth to begin with, was it? Fish on... Todd
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#641581 - 12/07/10 11:00 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I bet if you took all the money that rich people spend every day on mega mansions, yachts, and luxury cars, and put it in a pile...and then took all the money that the other 97% of us spend on gas, food, rent, insurance, and a million other things, you'd find that the pile of money contributed by the rich folks ain't fukallnuthin' compared to the "poor people" pile.
Fish on...
Todd
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#641585 - 12/07/10 11:01 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Spawner
Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 652
Loc: Bellingham/Socialistic Idaho
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I think McMahon must be the poster boy for class warfare. Sure. I don't have any qualms with that label. Class warfare has happened many times before in history and it will continue to happen as long as a select few take advantage of the less fortunate to enrich themselves. The only difference between this class warfare now compared to the Peasant Revolt in England in medieval times is that the poor people today are brainwashed by Fox News and the teabaggers into thinking that they should be defending the ultra-rich for some fuked up reason. I just have problems with a select few buying politicians so they can continue to export jobs to China and keep most of us suppressed into having a job where we make no money and have no benefits, meanwhile they take bailout money from the gov't at our childrens' expense. If it makes me a poster boy to want everyone to have decent health care and decent wages and have their voices actually heard by politicians, so be it.
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#641588 - 12/07/10 11:05 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: McMahon]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I agree...I think there is class warfare going on right now, and the fukked up part about it is that the ultra-rich have talked the dumb and unwashed masses to actually act as their foot soldiers, commanded by the lieutenants on FauxNews.
Fish on...
Todd
P.S. If you do it not because you are told to by Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh, but because you think that you might actually become one of those ultra-rich some day...good luck...ain't gonna happen.
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#641590 - 12/07/10 11:06 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I bet if you took all the money that rich people spend every day on mega mansions, yachts, and luxury cars, and put it in a pile...and then took all the money that the other 97% of us spend on gas, food, rent, insurance, and a million other things, you'd find that the pile of money contributed by the rich folks ain't fukallnuthin' compared to the "poor people" pile.
Fish on...
Todd Remember when they put that 'luxury tax' on those yachts? Remember when those rich fuggers decided to stop buying those yachts? What happened then Todd? Didn't entire industries shut down? Weren't the people who worked in those industries harmed when they were no longer working and weren't the other businesses in those communities harmed when those workers no longer had the money to spend? Your comment is utterly unrelated to anything I said that you are quoting... Fish on... Todd
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#641601 - 12/07/10 11:18 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3731
Loc: Water
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Just saying theres givers and takers in the world, it's what makes the world work. You could go into any ghetto and still find the same 3% not because their brilliant it's because their better at taking. Guess they deserve a tax break too.
Edited by SBD (12/07/10 11:33 PM)
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#641612 - 12/07/10 11:30 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: Todd]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
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I think McMahon must be the poster boy for class warfare. Sure. I don't have any qualms with that label. Class warfare has happened many times before in history and it will continue to happen as long as a select few take advantage of the less fortunate to enrich themselves. The only difference between this class warfare now compared to the Peasant Revolt in England in medieval times is that the poor people today are brainwashed by Fox News and the teabaggers into thinking that they should be defending the ultra-rich for some fuked up reason. I just have problems with a select few buying politicians so they can continue to export jobs to China and keep most of us suppressed into having a job where we make no money and have no benefits, meanwhile they take bailout money from the gov't at our childrens' expense. If it makes me a poster boy to want everyone to have decent health care and decent wages and have their voices actually heard by politicians, so be it. Now that there is a quality post! Nice to see intellect and reason factored into a debate without personal attacks.
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. -- Albert Einstein
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#641631 - 12/07/10 11:49 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
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I just watched Bowles & Simpson try to tell the media a few days ago that their tax plan would help working class America.
They couldn't even keep a straight face. It was like watching an SNL parody where they keep cracking up.
If you're on the lowest rung, the guy working at Burger King or some jackoff X-Ray tech trying to support 3 estranged children, it will save you $400, or 8 tanks of gas.
If you are in the wealthiest 1%, however, you will save $500,000...
...Or enough to buy a McMansion and still have enough left over to outsource your X-Ray image processing to India, lay off your jack-off X-ray techs, saving you another $75,000 a year, enough to hire him back as your personal toilet valet, paying him $7 an hour to wipe your ass and shake off your cock after you're done pissing on him.
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#641633 - 12/07/10 11:52 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: Irie]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2453
Loc: Area 51
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I just watched Bowles & Simpson try to tell the media a few days ago that their tax plan would help working class America.
They couldn't even keep a straight face. It was like watching an SNL parody where they keep cracking up.
If you're on the lowest rung, the guy working at Burger King or some jackoff X-Ray tech trying to support 3 estranged children, it will save you $400, or 8 tanks of gas.
If you are in the wealthiest 1%, however, you will save $500,000...
...Or enough to buy a McMansion and still have enough left over to outsource your X-Ray image processing to India, lay off your jack-off X-ray techs, saving you another $75,000 a year, enough to hire him back as your personal toilet valet, paying him $7 an hour to wipe your ass and shake off your cock after you're done pissing on him. True That!!!
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods. -- Albert Einstein
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#641689 - 12/08/10 01:44 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Carcass
Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 2190
Loc: Post Falls Idaho
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Some call it class warfare; I prefer to call it social justice.
Tax breaks for the wealthy 3% create jobs; I call that bull schit.
Companies will leave if they have to pay more tax; you must have missed the mass exodus so they could hire cheap labor over seas.
Taxes and hiring are connected; oh really, no one is hiring because no one is buying.
The rich work hard so they should be able to keep their money; this one makes me laugh. Hard work is running a jack hammer all day for a few a bucks an hour (back in the 70s). My life got easier the more money I made.
Again, why do people who are middle class continue to work against their own self interest? I mean, it really doesn't make sense to me when middle class people start using the term, "class warfare", to defend the rich against paying a just portion of their income towards the needs of this country.
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#641700 - 12/08/10 02:10 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: Idaho Mike]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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I already outlined the reasons above...they are either of the very mistaken idea that they will join the ultra-rich in being ultra-rich, or they are the unwitting dupe foot soldiers of the FauxNews/Rush Limbaugh idiocies...there's no other explanation.
Fish on...
Todd
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#641705 - 12/08/10 02:14 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Spawner
Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 652
Loc: Bellingham/Socialistic Idaho
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Or you could afford another new truck or another new Beemer or you could take a vacation in a tropical paradise and come on here and piss and moan about rich people.
Blow it out your ass you hypocritical cumguzzler. You are so detached from reality. You should try using nicer words as well. It might get you somewhere in life.
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#641718 - 12/08/10 03:23 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4317
Loc: South Sound
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Or you could afford another new truck or another new Beemer or you could take a vacation in a tropical paradise and come on here and piss and moan about rich people.
Blow it out your ass you hypocritical cumguzzler. I'm STILL not rich enough--or dumb enough--to vote Republican. I wish like hell I was rich enough.
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#641745 - 12/08/10 10:08 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
[Re: John Lee Hookum]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 442
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
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there's been 30 years of class warfare against the poor and middle class. union busting, reduced taxes on the wealthy, jobs shipped overseas, etc. and the rich complain that changing tax rates back to the low rates during the clinton administration is "class warfare".
this would be amusing if it weren't for the bank bailouts with all that money being poured into the rich's wallets. at the same time, the bailout of the auto industry to actually save jobs of american workers who create and build real stuff is fought tooth and nail as a waste of government funds. which was wasteful now?
we are facing a fiscal crisis, and all obama and the republicans want to do is kick the can down the road two more years.
obama sucks... not because he's a kenyan marxist socialist but because he doesn't stand for anything. he'd rather negotiate than fight for what he was elected to do. let's hope some democrats will filibuster this crappy tax deal.
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#641774 - 12/08/10 11:37 AM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Returning Adult
Registered: 06/28/00
Posts: 442
Loc: Rocky Mountain High
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Ah... the emotional appeal! IRS data shows that in 2004, the richest 50% of the taxpayers paid 96.7% of all income taxes. From 1986 to 2004, the share paid by the richest half increased from 93.5% to 96.7%, and the share paid by the richest 1% increased from 25.75% to 36.89%. At the same time, the amount paid by the poorer half decreased from 6.5% in 1986 to 3.3% in 2004. While the poor's contribution was cut in half, the richest Americans saw their contribution increase by nearly 50%. When you get past the propaganda, for the last two decades the rich have been paying more and more while the poor have been paying less and less.
There's your "SOCIAL JUSTICE" folks. Yet it's not enough for some of you socialists. The majority of the "rich" weren't behind the bank failures but you want to punish them anyway? of course the last sentence of what you quoted could easily be changed to "...for the last two decades the rich have been making more and more while the poor have been earning less and less." we're not going to agree on the expiration of the bush tax cuts. i believe that they were irresponsible policy that put us deeper in debt and that we cannot afford them as a country. while the right wants to frame this as "class warfare" it isn't. class warfare would be confiscatory tax rates on high incomes and seeing bankers and wall street crooks hanging from gallows... not increasing the top tax rate back to the historically low levels of the clinton administration.
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#641824 - 12/08/10 12:59 PM
Re: Sen Bernie Sanders Amazing Speech!
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Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
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We don't just have a spending problem, or a revenue problem, we have BOTH. IMO the problem is people--with absolute certainty--concluding that the problem is one or the other exclusively.
Yet what passes as a "compromise" these days is to increase spending while reducing revenue. It's insanity.
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