Probably true...which makes it all the more funny that "Obama Care" is really "Republican Care", since it's the idea they trotted out before...but everything that Republicans did longer than four years ago is now "socialist", with your unfortunate surrender to the freaks and shitstains known as "The Tea Party".

Fish on...

Todd

Hank, the Ryan plan, as I understand it, gives seniors vouchers and sends them out to the insurance market; where they will be denied insurance or sent to a high risk pool that will not be affordable for the vast majority.

All of these people know what the problem is; but appear unwilling to solve it for the long term. Obama's plan (which really is a horrible series of compromises) is what's out there and from my perspective much better than the current system; that limits access. So far all I have heard from the Republicans is let the private market solve the problem. But, isn't that what we have now? Todd's right and you know it; the mandate was a Republican idea and Romney; just a few years ago, said the federal goverment needs to adopt the mandate. Gingrich called it personal responsibility. But, now it is a bad idea. Why??

I agree with your last paragraph and maybe instead of argueing with each other over the internet maybe we should make that one common demand of both parties; get your [Bleeeeep!] together and solve this problem.

I agree that health care is the number one problem...do you agree that almost the exact same thing as "ObamaCare" was proposed...by the Republicans as a response to "HillaryCare"...and now is "socialism"?

I also think the Republicans' penchant to name things like "ObamaCare" is retarded, even if it wasn't a Republican plan to begin with.

Let me guess, Hank...when the Republicans proposed the same thing during the Clinton Administration, you thought it was a reasonable and sustainable response to "HillaryCare", which, incidentally, was "Socialism"...right?

Fish on...

Todd

Don't confuse health care with health insurance. EVERYONE has access to health care. ER in California have closed under the financial burden. Washington state under Debra Senn, did a great job of making health insurance more expensive and less available. They have been working towards single payer for decades. Control health care and you control the people. The Feds screw up every other program and the states are not much better. What makes you think we wont go broke under a single payer program. When you can buy votes of those who will do next to nothing, but still get 3 squares and health care, room and board, and boose, why work? Keep them stoned and they wont complain.

If you expect a certain segment of the population to work for free, after all the education they are required to pass, you will eventually get less of those workers. Medical professors don't work for free. Malpractice attorneys dont work for free. Book editors and printers dont work for free and medical equipment manufactures do not work for free. Contractors who build the medical buildings dont work for free either. The target is doctors and nurses. But the unions are working hard to solve that. Sorry, Im on break. Put your thumb in the bullet hole.

All I can say LB is WTF are you talking about. Simple solutions for simple people, is my guess.

Hank, thanks for the link.

You can buy anything you want across state lines, except health insurance. Mandates for more and more goodies included in the plans has made it impossible to find a plan at a reasonal cost. If you want to lower costs, have more competition. The hospitals in the area are restricted from adding just any service they want. The keeps certain hospitals protected from competition. BTW McKenna recently said he will get with other govs to push for more competition across state lines.

In theory, paying for insurance is the way to go. The big problem is that young folks wont use the services and they will be subsidizing the premiums of older folks who use up most of the benefits. The second problem is the result of how the affordable care act conflicts with the constitution. If the govt wants to mandate health insurance, then they should also remove any restrictions from the public, to obtain the best policy for the least amount of money. I have no doubt, that obamacare is not about the health of the nation or reducing costs. They want control and they want the power that goes along with it.

So...if ObamaCare raised the penalty for not buying insurance, you'd support it?

I'm sure I'm not reading that right.

Fish on...

Todd

Hank you had me reading and listening to what you were saying, not agreeing but listening, right up til that KenyanMarxist remark.

Do you really expect to change anyone's mind or opinion while making comments like that? At some point in time the serious discussion must take the forefront so that this and other problems can be dealt with.


Fishy

I thought the point of a debate was to make your position known so that others could make a decision based on all points made or perhaps this should be relegated to the Rants and Raves section of Craigslist.


Fishy

Like KK?

“Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured.... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen.”

It's not "KenyanMarxistSocialist"...it's "Nigerian Kenyan Socialist Muslim"...

Fish on...

Todd

Nope, I just thought just once you were trying to make a succinct point exclusive of all the usual diatribe we see on here.

My mistake, carry on.

I'm sure JG will have something to add here as well!

Fishy

Did y'all see the decision today on strip searches? WTF are the cright wing justices doing??? These guys are supposed to be the limited govt/strict constructionists... It's incredibly sad to see how politicized the court is these days. Lifetime appointments seem to do nothing to help keep them free of it

[Bleeeeep!]! How do you think the rest of the industrialized world affords health care? Why did my brother pay FIVE DOLLARS in Thailand to have his wife have an ultrasound by a U.S. trained doctor?

Why does it cost a tiny fraction of the U.S. cost to have a surgery in S.E. Asia by U.S. train doctors?

It has nothing to do with the expense of education to get an M.D. It has everything to do with the health care industry being the 3rd largest industry in the U.S. and inflated prices because of insurance on the patient's side and the doctor's side.

Crush the insurance industry and you cut prices immediately.

Oh no, we could not have limits on what Corps can charge and how they can rape us, err overcharge us, err oh well you know.

You have opened a can of worms here, it will be interesting to see how things shake out here.....I'm sure it will be interesting though..


Fishy

I would hate to argue with your statement of $5 dollars (which would be 1/5th the price of an average 3* hotel room) for an ultra sound but a simple google search would be all you need to really say that figure is not correct. Most prices for testing in Thailand have not increased since 2009 so an ultra sound runs between 1000 - 3500 baht (if paid in cash) or $33 - $113 american. That price is without any other labs or test and doesn't include the actual doctors visit. Still a lot cheaper than in the U.S but you also have to remember that $33 american dollars will go a lot further in Thailand no matter what you are purchasing.
Also while the insurance industry might play a role in why health care is so expensive here and cheap overseas but in Thailand for example the Doctors make roughly 40% of U.S. doctors, Nurses make 20% and so on with all the other staff it takes to make up a hospital.

You forgot the inflated pricing to cover medicare and other under compensated payments. In addition you forgot the cost of malpractice insurance and the cost of legal representation. Surely, not all medical schools cost the same amount. Consider too, why anyone would graduate here and move to, or move back to Thailand to practice for almost zero money. Charity, but more likely subsidies by foreign govts. There was legal reform in Texas, that Bush use to refer to for OBGYN, if memory serves. He made the case why a lot of baby doctors were giving up their practice. Every cost is passed along. Other than that, I dont know how SE ASIA funds its medical personel or the system.

What we lack is competition and affordable plans. Obama care is suppose to hire 4000 IRS agents. Why would we need that for such a great plan?

BTW who elected all the fn Czars in the WH?

Why do foriegn Drs. educate and train in the US?

Because it's the best subsidized schooling available.