After 20 years of Modern hunting I am ready to make the switch to muzzleloader. Being new to the idea, I have no real idea what I need to know.

What do you guys use? What are the particulars I need to know about this state?
Now is your chance to show your exceptional knowledge Andy (Dogfish) !!!

I am looking at buying a relatively inexpensive rifle for now, and then if I like it, going for a premium class. I am leaning towards the CVA Hunterbolt or Eclipse, if they are legal. They state that they are good in all states with interchangeable parts, but I never trust that.
I have seen them for under $200 at Sportco and Cabela's.

So...............

Dekuma, you are opening a realy big can of worms here, i think your going to hear allot. I too jumped into muzzleloading a few years ago.ive seen a few critters downed with a muzzleloader and my advice is learn to shoot and shoot good, dont worry about bullets and powder and this and that, whatever gun you buy call the factory rep and ask about what charge and bullet works best in that gun and shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. #1 muzzleloading excuse,'I missed'....and be realistic 150 yards is a pretty good stab with a smoke pole. open sights change everything, i myself dont like the new fiber optic sights they are to bright in dark woods, i go with the old tried and true steal sights with a brass bead, works best for my eyes. good luck and keep it simple becouse all you are doing hucking a hunk of lead...

In-lines are legal in Wa if the nipple is exposed to the elements. I bought a CVA hunterbolt from Cabela's,it was $149 with the accesory kit. Other than the sights ( they suck ) it's a great first ML. It's been very accurate with almost all the loads I've tried,with new sights it'll be even more so. With the breech plug out it's also simple to clean.

I went with the .54 cal, mostly because I also want to use it for elk,and a .50 is minimum for elk in Wa,I don't like using just the minimum.

I shoot conical bullets,and use pyrodex powder. I'm gonna try the pyrodex pellets, with the pellets,the powder measure is one less thing you have to keep track of.

I'm surprised Dogfish hasn't posted yet,he's the ML expert here on the board.

Me, an expert? Too much credit given, just some experience, but thanks for the recognition.

Anyway, I shoot .54's as well. My first rifle was a CVA hawken. It shoots VERY well with the right loads, and I have taken an elk and one deer with it. My main rifle is a T/C Thunderhawk, also in .54. I would suggest to get Firehawk instead, primarily because of the overly cumbersome safety on the Thunderhawk.

I have never had any issues with the CVA's, and I think you can find a great rifle for the price. It isn't a huge expense to see if you like the added challenge of a single shot, and if you decide to get into it even more, you can move up to my next rifle, the Remington 700.

Choose a number of different types of bullets to test your rifle with. With my .54's they both like the Hornady Great Plains, 425 gr SWC HP, but I tried at least 6 brands before I settled on one.

I like the new 777 powder, burns clean, and I never load more than 100 grains. Then again, I haven't shot an animal with an ML further than 35 yards, so I haven't needed it.

Best of luck.

Andy

I too have a model 700 rem (that my wife now uses) which i'm very happy with. I highly recommend the in line if for nothing else the consistency of the firing. Two buddies of mine had misfires with the old hammerbacks this year and that is no good.
As for bullets I really like the accuracy of the powerbelts, and they load oh so nice. Like dogfish said that triple 7 powder is some good stuff. Pyrodex is a dirty burning powder and that make for a lot less shots between cleaning and a lot longer to clean. I use powder with speedloaders so I'm not sitting there measuring out while I'm hunting.
I put the thompson center fiberoptic site on mine for a couple reasons. Those plastic sites that come with most guns will brake off (seen that happen) and the adjustment's on the tc sight are really nice.
These guns can be accurate well past 100 yds but I would never shoot at an animal that far away. Wind makes a big impact on such a slow moving bullet.
Good luck to ya

Thanks for the input. If you have more, keep it coming.

I agree that Andy seems to be the expert, but you all seem to be an expert in my book. I have been contempleting this switch for years, but have never committed.

I was under the impression that a .54 was just too much. In the in-line ML I am having a hard time even finding much in .54. I am thinking of ML for elk first then maybe going for deer and bear as well down the road. Should I stick to a .54 or with a good shot, is the 50 more than adequate.
Realizing it is all about knowing your rifle and where it shoots is the most important.
I have taken a 5pt bull out to 485.5 yards in 1 shot with my .308, because I know my gun, where it shoots, and how to shoot it.
I was told many times that a .308 was no good for elk. Tell that to the ones in my freezer and on my wall!

You may be having trouble finding a .54 because the trend now is to use sabots with smaller cal. bullets. This is an easy way to make a ML shoot faster and flatter. If you load a .45 of .50 cal with a sabot you can get up to 2600fps which is more than twice what I can get with conicals. In some states it's legal to shoot a ML with a scope,add that to a modern in-line and you basically have a modern rifle. Alot of people use a ML because they want to hunt longer seasons with more chance of success, but they don't want the handicap of a ML.

If you look hard enough you'll find a .54 if that's what you want. I even saw a guy using a hawken style .68 cal ML....what a beast!

And yes a .50 is adequate,but that's the smallest you can shoot for elk in Wa. I just like to be able to really hammer whatever I shoot at.

I have a Thompson Balck Diamond .50 cal, stainless with synthetic stock inline with fiber optic sights. I got it at Wal Mart for $300. I would recomend this gun to anyone. Also, I would never shoot powder again after shooting the Pyrodex pellets. This gun can handle different ignitions, but I use the musket caps, which may be required in Wa. Using a sabot bullet, you can get pretty good shot groups at 100yds. I would recommend this rifle, if you buy a cheaper one and then buy fiber optic sights, you may spend @ $200. Good luck-----

I have a Thompson Balck Diamond .50 cal, stainless with synthetic stock inline with fiber optic sights. I got it at Wal Mart for $300. I would recomend this gun to anyone. Also, I would never shoot powder again after shooting the Pyrodex pellets. This gun can handle different ignitions, but I use the musket caps, which may be required in Wa. Using a sabot bullet, you can get pretty good shot groups at 100yds. I would recommend this rifle, if you buy a cheaper one and then buy fiber optic sights, you may spend @ $200. Good luck-----

I have hunted with a muzzle loader for more than 20yrs.I started with a Hawken 54 cal.Since then I have bought a Knight 54 cal. inline and have killed elk with both.But my experience has been that the inline in a lot easier to keep dry in Wa.I have also bought a new Knight 50 cal magnum and it is amazing on how far and acurate it shoots I can shoot 4 inch groups at 100yds and 9 inch groups at 200yds with a 150 grains of pyrodex pelets.I wont shoot at a elk that far but I will take a deer with out a second thought.I use the Knight sabots and they work well in the Knight rifles.I would recomend the Knight rifles over any other muzzle stuffer on the market.Dekuma you are very close to good elk areas like BD and RD I have taken elk in both of these!!!

Something to remember that jacketed bullets or non lead bullets are not legal for hunting here.

also 50 cal being the minimum is cause of the weight of its round ball at 190 gr. shooting a 360 gr or bigger conical out of a 50 would be plenty of power.

like in another post the musket caps are definetly the way to go. They're something like 700 degrees hotter. The black diamond is a pretty good bargain and shoots really good.(my buddy has one) That flamethrower ignition works everytime. I would not feel at all under gunned with a .50 cal. Plus you see a lot more stuff for them. Kinda like having an 06

My son and I both use 54 cal. Knights. They are a great weapon and have performed extremely well for us.I also use pyrodex but that 777 sounds interesting.I might pick some up and give it a try.
I bought some Williams aftermarket sights that I love.They are fiber optic and made out of machined aircraft alum.
I first used some C.V.A. fiber optics and they were a cheap peice of crap that cost me a 6x6 bull at about 40 yds.I learned a good lesson on cutting costs there.
I use a so called waterproof german made cap that is readily available. They are way hotter and have not once failed to fire,in the most miserable weather you can imagine.
I also try to tuck the bolt area under my arm if the weather is really adverse.For more protection on the inlines just put a peice of tape over the cap area.Dont know how legal it is,but it works great.
Last year sucked for us,do to access problems because of the dry weather. This year we hunted modern firearm for the first time in a few years,but plan on going back to frontstuffers next year.
My boy got a beautiful 5x5 elk on opening morning.Great first elk.(he had one proud Dad with him)
I got a 4x4 +eyegaurds buck yesterday morning.It was a smaller rack,but very unique.
Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures soon.
Good luck on the muzzle loading. Be sure to buy a few speedloaders.Also I have noticed that powder measures can vary by manufacturer.You can get the Knight Wolverines in a starter kit pretty reasonable,especially if you catch them on sale.

Forgot to mention that the Williams sights have a relatively small fiber optic insert.
They are bright enough to see well.But not so big and bright that they cause your target to blur or distract you from your target.
That was another problem I have seen with some of the other sights.Too big.too much light.too hard to focus on your target.

Hey DeKuma,

I've hunted ML for 25 years, so I'll throw out my opinion foor what it's worth. I hunt ML exclusively for elk and almost exclusively for deer. I absolutely love it.

My boys and I have Thompson Center Firehawks. I love them. Very accurate, totally dependable, simple to operate and easy to clean. But I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the major brands.

MY PREFERENCES:
* Musket caps. Way hotter and way more flame = more consistent Ka-Boom.
* Pyrodex Select works great for us. (I'm going to try 777 next).
* Definitely prefer an in-line for hunting in or weather.
* We all shoot .54 cal.... But 5 years ago, I began shooting a saboted bullet. I've shot 4 elk with these and like how they perform. As always, placement reigns supreme.
* If I were going to buy a new ML now, I'd look at that TC Black Diamond XR with the 28" barrel. I want one!!!
* You can't get too much practice with a ML.

P.S. I've taken to shooting a saboted round called a Harverter bullet. 45 caliber, 400 grain, flat nosed, hard cast lead. Puts the hurt on elk huge time. The wound channel is incredible if anyone is looking for a good elk round to try out. I found these bullets in Muzzleloader Magazine and order them from www.claybusterwads.com.

Happy hunting!

According to the muzzleloading rules here in WA, the projectile has to be pure lead and at least nominal .50 caliber or at least 170 grains, which is essentially a .490 round ball that's normally shot in a .50 cal gun. Both the sabots and the conicals I use far outweigh the power of that size round ball, both for deer and elk. For elk, I've been using either the 370-grain T/C Maxi-ball or the 350-grain PR Bullet Ultimate 1 Keith Nose solids (both full bore conicals). For deer, I've been using the 235-grain PR Bullet QT40 saboted bullets with amazing accuracy. For elk next year, I'm hoping to find a really accurate load with either of the 330- and 360-grain .45 cal saboted bullets I got from PR Rifle. I got some of the Ultimate 1 "Plinkers" (just means solid instead of hollowpoint) in both the Extreme (semi-spitzer) and the Keith Nose designs. I've heard very many good reports on both styles for elk, and they're CHEAP ($14.95 for a 50 pack).

Both of my muzzleloaders that I have now are .50 cal, and I would buy a .45 cal if I were buying a new one tomorrow. As long as your projectile meets the requirements of the law, the gun is legal. That means a .45 cal gun shooting any conical or even a saboted bullet that weight at least 170 grains is legal. I think a good quality .45 cal gun shooting a full load of 777 powder pushing one of the PR Bullet .45 cal QT conicals in the 360-grain size would be some deadly elk medicine. I might try a .490 round ball for the little coastal blacktails, but most definitely not for elk.

I hunt deer and elk exclusively with muzzleloaders now, and I recommend an inline for your first muzzleloader... or your last one. The traditional style guns are fun to play with, but I really believe that an inline is a better hunting gun. I hunted with my CVA Eclipse inline last year and it performed great. I hunted elk with my T/C Hawken in early elk season this year, but have switched back to the Eclipse inline for late deer. The Eclipse just fits me perfectly and is balanced well (after my changes), where the Hawken was heavy, bulkier, and much harder to carry. I've customized the Eclipse a bit, as I tend to to with all of my guns, but it just shoots wonderfully for me. As has been said, the sights that come on the CVA inlines just suck, pure and simple. After a few trips back and forth with CVA trying to make them work for me, they sent me a set of the Winchester brand Durabright sights instead. Those are very nice metallic sights, second only to the T/C click-adjustable sights. This year, I added a Williams receiver peep sight and I can honestly say I've never had a sighting system that good on a gun before.

I've tried all the powders out there and have settle on 777 powder in the FFg granulation for both of my .50 cal guns. Cleanshot and Clearshot were both too hard to ignite reliably and had questionable shelf life in humid environments (like we have in WA). Real BP and Pyrodex were too corrosive and I couldn't always get home to give my guns a thorough cleaning every night after shooting, not to mention Pyrodex sharing the other substitutes' trouble with igniting reliably. I'm not a big fan of pellets because I like to fine tune my loads, and I've been using speed loaders long enough that it wouln't really be any faster for me to use the pellets. It would sure be more expensive, though. I shoot year around to keep in practive and those pellets cost entirely too much. I wouldn't advise using the 777 powder in the FFFg granulation, even for a smaller bore like .45 cal. It just burns too hot. I usually use FFFg black powder (and substitute powders), but that FFFg 777 powder was destroying my sabots and conicals and giving terrible accuracy. Even a bore button under the conicals didn't help. I'm getting much better accuracy with the FFg 777 powder. Don't pay the $24 or more per pound that all the stores are charging for 777, though. Kesselring in Burlington has it for $16.95/lb and supposedly some store down south there close to Olympia has it for about the same price. I'm usually in Kesselrings at least once a month, though, so I just pick it up there.

The most important thing for a new muzzleloader shooter to do is go shoot with someone who's been doing it for a while. It's all so much easier to understand if you're actually seeing it instead of trying to learn from reading about it. If you (or anyone) want some more details on any of this stuff or just want to go shoot sometime, let me know. I usually shoot up at the Everett Sportsman Club range, where I'm a member, and would be happy to show you the ropes.

Jason

Thanks for all the info Jason! Glad to have you aboard. (no pun intended).

As soon as I get my stuff together, I will maybe give you a shout and glean what knowledge I can from you. I am hoping to get my career back on track so I can have my toys soon.

I am still undecided as to what to buy. I am looking at the Eclipse, or the Hunterbolt since they are legal here and the price is right. Though I am also looking into archery as well. I have a 45# Bear recurve that I need to start using and decide from there what next years hunting will be with. May be a new bow in my future as well. Nothing like having a choice of which way to hunt!

Hello,Bi-Mart is selling the Remington model 700 in .54 ca. for $279.00 you have to look around to find one or just go to your local Bi-mart and have them order you one.This is a $549.00 dollar gun. A .54 cal. is a good all around gun, I have a CVA in-line in .54 and an Austin-Halleck in .50,I like them both equally well.The .50 will take an elk !!, Oh Yea Bi-mart also has Rem. .50 cal muzzleloaders for the same price !!,my son just bought a Rem. .54 cal from them when I told him about it.This is a terriffic deal !!!!.
Bob