How is it that you, Salmo, one of the elite, educated, allegedly bright members of society has only doom and gloom to say about it all. I would suspect
if you and your peers had half as many smarts as you think, you would have
created a sustainable model for society to survive by.

I understand that you survive on the taxpayers buck. That should make you even
more catalzyed to try to improve the lot of the rest of us herd beasts.
C'mon with some ideas rather than just politically oriented sour grapes and
vinegar.
Please don't re-inforce my opinion that you and many like you are educated beyond your intelligence.
Where is all that hope and change?

Like most things, what is requried to make the world at least more sustainable and less full of pollution is not a secret, nor is it complicated...what's complicated is manifold...first, there's those who profit from the status quo, and second there's their supporters who defend them (and most often vote for them) in direct contravention of their own well being.

Fish on...

Todd

Let's assume you have defined the problem, people. Now define a possible fix. I'm listening.

Illy,

This thread is indicative of only a small part of my collection of thought on a whole lotta' stuff. If you knew me, you'd understand why many of my compatriots think I'm a Pollyanna optimist.

There are models of sustainability (altho they're a bit simple cuz, after all, this is still a pretty big world). The problem is that as Todd points out, sustainable living on this planet is diametrically opposite the American economic model. Now some economists insist that perpetual economic growth is possible even if perpetual industrial (extraction/production/consumption) is not. I don't study the subject and don't know how that is possible, so I'm in a really poor position to argue it. More relevant is that the most powerful people in the world benefit from the status quo perpetual economic & industrial expansion model, and frankly most of the rest of us, your truly included, do also even as we march economically toward the precipice. Then there is the global population issue that no society will address (except China). Fortunately, the factors of economics and women's access to education looks like the human population growth issue may solve itself, altho it includes some serious problems along the way; i.e., some European countries are experiencing negative pop. growth even with immigration. And that creates serious near-term economic problems. Same in the USA, altho immigration keeps growth positive for now. But that's likely to change within 50 years. If we don't change the national economic model, societal collapse is likely. I can't predict if the beneficiaries of the status quo will opt for change, even gradual economic model change, over collapse. No crystal ball here.

True, I survive on the taxpayer's buck, and much as I would like to be super-human and improve the lot of human-kind, I long ago realized I cannot even improve the lot of salmonid-kind. So I set about identifying the segment of salmonid-kind that I can improve and address my professional efforts toward that end. My persistence is paying off, and I'm enjoying some satisfaction in this area. Thank you for the jurisdictional authority that allows me some degree of success on your behalf.

Sg

One way or another things will equalize......there are lots of questions as to exactly HOW it will happen, but it will happen.

It may well be that some future eyes not from here gaze upon a gray line in a cliff and say, "This is when humans lived here."

The bummer right now is that pretty much all the most likely scenarios include cataclysmic death of millions, or billions, as that "equalizer"...we sure as hell aren't taking any steps at all to stop that from coming.

Fish on...

Todd

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm certainly not prepared for anything of any magnitude. But then how does one prepare for a meteor impact? or microbial plague?

Hell the next big earthquake off the San Juans could wipe us out. We are only about fifty feet above sea level.

Not going to spend my time worrying about it, either.

You can prepare.

Then you'll last a couple weeks longer than everyone else, all the while knowing your a.ss doesn't stand a chance of surviving and it's just a matter of time until you join them.



I don't worry about that sh!t, either. I'm more worried about when I'm going to quit being a corporate cog in the machine so much and get back to fishing more often.

Yeah.

I want to.

Nice response Salmo g. Can't say I agree with it all but it certainly
is an improvement on the name calling and political propaganda that
violates the clean air.
If mankind doesn't create its' own Dinosauer Killer event perhaps
the Cosmos will oblige, in which case a bug out bag will be
totally inadequate. Even so, you should have one.

I like the scenario created by Jerry Pournelle and partner in the
book, "Lucifer's Hammer." It's just a bit of fiction based on 'what if',
Mankind's history is a bunch of what ifs.

The biggest problem seems to me is the finding a way to survive
without furthering the allegedly destructive tactics of the big
nasty corporations and their management teams that are required
to show a profit and provide dividends for the investors.(us)
Oh, and provide jobs for the rest of us to help destroy spaceship earth.

Science is making huge advancements on the workings of the brain so maybe someday there won't be any RWWJ's to stand in the way.

That was Hitler's plan

Hitler wanted all RWWJ's.

Which of our parties does this most represent:

Totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of Germany's Nazi Party (1920–45). Its roots lay in the tradition of Prussian militarism and discipline and German Romanticism, which celebrated a mythic past and proclaimed the rights of the exceptional individual over all rules and laws. Its ideology was shaped by Hitler's beliefs in German racial superiority and the dangers of communism. It rejected liberalism, democracy, the rule of law, and human rights, stressing instead the subordination of the individual to the state and the necessity of strict obedience to leaders. It emphasized the inequality of individuals and “races” and the right of the strong to rule the weak. Politically, National Socialism favoured rearmament, reunification of the German areas of Europe, expansion into non-German areas, and the purging of “undesirables,” especially Jews.

Don't bother explaining political science...RWWJ's think Nazis are socialists because it says "socialism" right in their title...when you show them the definition of a fascist they get pretty uptight, as it closely mirrors the right wing corporate military-industrial complex that uses religion to divide and conquer it's own people...kind of like the Republican Party.

Fish on...

Todd

and the purging of “undesirables,” especially RWWJ's

The Nazis were RWWJ's, they had no desire to purge themselves.

Fish on...

Todd

Yes, it does...since apparenly unlike JG, I know the difference between a socialist and a Nazi.

Fish on...

Todd

Along the same lines as the GOP using the term Conservative.

and Libs trying to sell their stuff as progressive.

That's pretty savvy Odd. Hell even Stalin thought Adolph was a
Socialist, that's what made the Ribbentrop engineered non- agression pact possible.
That piece of Poland is yours, this piece is mine.
Done deal.