#756948 - 05/01/12 12:03 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Saundu]
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Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3076
Loc: AK
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"your not the first guy that's lost an anchor on this river."
I've been part of two anchor donations on that river.
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I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
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#756970 - 05/01/12 06:08 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Moravec]
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The Original Boat Ho
Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 2917
Loc: Bellevue
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Amazing as it sounds, years ago(20+) saw two dudes on one of those Seyvlor blow up kayaks with a bunch of gear , try and make it from the island (no idea how they made it over there) to the launch . As they were swept past the launch, they turned and began to paddle like hell for the launch. Just a few moments and they were into the trees and turned over. I can remember yelling with all I had and getting the attention of a sled who was back behind the island. He Plucked one out of river and one off of bank. Two lucky mofo's.
I lost an anchor in the very same spot. Tough day on Cow with no anchor. I did have my kicker and can recall that I got a Springer on a blue metallic hotshot. Right were all of the trailers are.
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It's good to have friends It's better to have friends with boats ***GutZ***
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#756980 - 05/01/12 11:00 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: GutZ]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27838
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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When the upstream end (stern) of the boat goes under water, it fills the entire boat up within seconds.
The stern gets underwater when the weight in the back, current, and angle of the rope add up to more downward force than there is floatation force pushing upwards.
The shorter your anchor rope, the more the force pulls straight down, as the "downward force" is coming directly at the angle of the anchor rope.
The faster the current, the more force that is being exerted down the anchor rope angle.
The more weight in the back of the boat, the less force that is required to pull the stern under.
Can't really math it out, per se, as there are a lot of variables within those three main ones...but the moral is to not overweight your boat, don't anchor in heavy water, and more anchor rope will lead to less downward force on your boat.
Your anchor does not have to be stuck for any of this to happen, but if it is stuck you are in a much worse position...you can actually pull yourself underwater by pulling up on the anchor rope...anchor doesn't move, but boat gets pulled down.
Fish on...
Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#756981 - 05/01/12 11:07 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Todd]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 08/22/11
Posts: 217
Loc: On the Rogue
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good info Todd.
that story makes your hair crawl just reading it. glad it had a happy ending.
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I wish I had never picked up a steelhead rod. Obsession sucks.
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#757015 - 05/01/12 02:59 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: IdahoSH]
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ExtenZe Field Tester
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Sometimes Stupid Tax includes equipment loss or worse. Glad they made it out.
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NO STEP ON SNEK
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#757035 - 05/01/12 04:35 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Todd]
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Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3076
Loc: AK
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The shorter your anchor rope, the more the force pulls straight down, as the "downward force" is coming directly at the angle of the anchor rope.
The faster the current, the more force that is being exerted down the anchor rope angle.
The more weight in the back of the boat, the less force that is required to pull the stern under.
Can't really math it out, per se, as there are a lot of variables within those three main ones...but the moral is to not overweight your boat, don't anchor in heavy water, and more anchor rope will lead to less downward force on your boat.
The relationship between load and angle/direction of force applied fits under the umbrella of vector force analysis, something that comes into play in the climbing/rescue world all of the time. Mathing it out is definitely possible, but to do that you would need to collect a lot of super boring information such as forward speed of the boat, current speed, weight of the boat and occupants, coefficient of friction between anchor and substrate, angle that water impacts the stern, on and on. The common sense method is a lot easier and more practical. As has been stated, a steeper angle is achieved with less scope, or anchor rope in service. The steeper the angle, the more the force is applied in a downward direction. The amount of force is a significant factor, as is the direction in which it is being applied. Take the same load or force factor and apply it at two drastically different vector angles, and you will get very different force values in the critical area, in this case the stern of the boat. The same amount of force exists in each equation, but it is dissipated and shared between the components very differently based on the vector angle. So, as Todd said, consider your force factors or force potential. Weight of the boat, speed of the current, weight of the anchor and manner in which is dropped, etc. The perfect storm is a heavy load in the boat, poor job of weighting and balancing (favoring the rear), heavy flow, and a heavy anchor that is dropped quickly to the bottom and hangs up immediately. If all of these things happened to combine in one event, well, we have all seen how that can go. So, how do you mitigate? One, don’t overload the boat. Two pay attention to weight and balance issues. Be very cautious about dropping the rock in heavy flows where there is the potential for the anchor to stick before an appropriate amount of anchor line is out. I anchor in heavy water all of the time and have never had an issue, due in large part to paying attention to what has been described above. Additionally, rather than drop the rock immediately to the bottom at full speed, I will often grab a few hard oar strokes to slow my forward speed, slowly lower the anchor to the bottom, and then pay out line slowly until an effective scope/angle has been achieved, sometimes dragging the anchor on the bottom gradually and/or gradually transferring load to the anchor while paying out line should the rock stick immediately.
_________________________
I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
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#757051 - 05/01/12 05:39 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: ColeyG]
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ExtenZe Field Tester
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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So, how do you mitigate? One, don’t overload the boat. Two pay attention to weight and balance issues. Be very cautious about dropping the rock in heavy flows where there is the potential for the anchor to stick before an appropriate amount of anchor line is out. I anchor in heavy water all of the time and have never had an issue, due in large part to paying attention to what has been described above. Additionally, rather than drop the rock immediately to the bottom at full speed, I will often grab a few hard oar strokes to slow my forward speed, slowly lower the anchor to the bottom, and then pay out line slowly until an effective scope/angle has been achieved, sometimes dragging the anchor on the bottom gradually and/or gradually transferring load to the anchor while paying out line should the rock stick immediately.
In a DB in small rivers, I like to avoid dropping the hook in heavy water. Safety, anchor recovery and I don't want to tie up the passage or the meat of the run. I look for easier water, that gives me access to prime water to drop hook into. Also helps to eyeball the structure of the adjacent bank.....often the river bottom is the same. I try to avoid craggy stuff and look for freestone. Still have my original, lead bodied Ramsey (Animal) anchor....crap, I hope I didn't just put the jinx on I've seen 18" round bumpers completely submerged while anchoring power boats below Bonneville at the old deadline. Bare minimum 350' anchor rope and big tined, break away anchors. Some carry 600'. Rooster tail trying to form off the stern once you get a hold....might take a few tries. Different class of anchoring, but the basic principles remain the same.
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NO STEP ON SNEK
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#757536 - 05/03/12 01:23 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Eric]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 11/30/99
Posts: 334
Loc: A coastal river with fish
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Sound to me like they didnt have the boat set up right to run 4 guys out of, maybe they should have moved the front seat forward, and the rower seat forward to lift the back end up. Plus theres alot of snags, stumps ect in the area there trying to anchor in, cuz in my early years of rowing I have lost an anchor in that same area. Not sure if I would have anchored in that area, with the flows over 8k, I also like having over 60ft of anchor rope. so I can change the pitch/ angle when anchored. I remember one thing Bob told me when in heavy water try and find some soft water before anchoring, so you dont suck the back down. Driftboats outlawed? why cant you row!!!!!!
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Team Eagle Creek {NFC} Owner/Guide Wildhair Guide Service, I've got a wildhair to catch big fish!!!
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#757546 - 05/03/12 01:49 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: ]
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SRC Poser
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2104
Loc: Snohomish
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People don't kill people.................Drift boats kill people. not all of us have the luxury of owning a big fancy fish rite sled. I kid, I kid. Haha.
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No head like STLHD! "Dude...where's your boat!?" Team runaway drift boat prostaff. Big Stick 2012: "EVERY thought of my being, is in regards to being a Hi-Tech Predator and I relish the role."
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#757547 - 05/03/12 01:52 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: ]
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ExtenZe Field Tester
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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People don't kill people.................Drift boats kill people. Well, that's one way for a bank maggot to troll. This doesn't count as a bite.
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NO STEP ON SNEK
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#757580 - 05/03/12 05:38 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: ]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 1877
Loc: Kingston, WA
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Drift boats should be outlawed. Then there would be lotz more room for sledz on the Cowlitz.
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Matt. 8:27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
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#757639 - 05/04/12 04:30 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Mooch]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/06/11
Posts: 219
Loc: S River central
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foot releases should be outlawed:) at least around me! i got a leelock on my boat and my friend has the foot release. i made a bad mistake while rowing his boat coming into a dogleg turn i shifted my feet while digging, foot slipped, hit the release, going thru the tailout w/only a lil rope out, it grabs,gives,grabs then , yanked the line tight, boat starts to sway, i do a 180* stroke against the sway and anchor gives, we get thru and my friend up front had some memorable things to say for his " loss of beer".....and whiplash:)
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salmonsteelsox rod covers check it before you wreck it! #hatcheryfishhavenospiritname
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#757640 - 05/04/12 08:01 AM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: ]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5003
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
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Drift boats are great..............if you have a shuttle and can fish during the week. Unfortunatly mine sits in the barn 362 days a year.
Maybe I should buy it?????? Then it could sit on my property 365 days a year........ lol
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"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"
"I thought growing older, would take longer"
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#757676 - 05/04/12 01:13 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Driftfishnw]
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Spawner
Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 981
Loc: Tacoma
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People have to realize that a boat can go under even if the flow isn't way up. I think all of us that own boats at some point have either had a close call, have seen a close call or have seen what happened on the Cowlitz. I wear an inflatable vest even though I can swim well but I realize that even if you are good swimmer cold water shock can turn into a stroke or heart attack. The life vest can keep you floating above water but it won’t matter if you’re dead.
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#757678 - 05/04/12 01:23 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: bhudda]
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ExtenZe Field Tester
Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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foot releases should be outlawed:) at least around me! i got a leelock on my boat and my friend has the foot release. i made a bad mistake while rowing his boat coming into a dogleg turn i shifted my feet while digging, foot slipped, hit the release, going thru the tailout w/only a lil rope out, it grabs,gives,grabs then , yanked the line tight, boat starts to sway, i do a 180* stroke against the sway and anchor gives, we get thru and my friend up front had some memorable things to say for his " loss of beer".....and whiplash:) A friend has one, not a fan for numerous reasons.
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NO STEP ON SNEK
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#757739 - 05/04/12 08:38 PM
Re: Boat Down on Cowlitz
[Re: Direct-Drive]
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Spawner
Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 528
Loc: alaska and washington
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Dont learn to swim, it just prolongs the dyin
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