#782243 - 08/30/12 07:13 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Salmo g.]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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And more. http://washingtonstatewire.com/blog/greg...-supreme-court/Do not know SG other than the tax payers get their money back and force the legislature to have the balls to address tribal issues.
Edited by Rivrguy (08/30/12 07:13 PM)
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#782257 - 08/30/12 08:38 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7643
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Legislature? Balls? Isn't that an oxymoron?
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#782258 - 08/30/12 08:44 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Ah maybe............. From AUTO: August 30, 2012 This morning the WA Supreme Court ruled in favor of AUTO and its members' challenge to the tribal motor fuel tax compacts negotiated by Governor Gregoire. The court reversed a lower court ruling that granted the state's request for dismissal on the grounds that a citizen can not challenge any agreement reached between the state and a treaty tribe. The citizens of Washington have averted a constitutional crisis and the suit is headed back to Grays Harbor County were the case will be heard on its merits. In the 5-4 decision, the majority opinion discounted many of the States' arguments defending the Governor's compacts with tribal station operators: • Moreover, the notion that potentially unconstitutional government conduct must be redressed through the legislature is frankly astonishing given the bedrock principle that it is "emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is." • Sovereign immunity is meant to be raised as a shield by the tribe, not wielded as a sword by the State. • While the tribes are necessary parties whose joinder is not feasible due to sovereign immunity, in the circumstances of this case they are not indispensable. We reverse the trial court's order of dismissal and hold that this action can proceed without the tribes "in equity and good conscience" under CR 19(b).5. The largest obstacle we faced (whether or not a citizen could challenge) was cleared today. The facts of the case are fairly clear and we are confident this decision is only the first with more to come. Some of the key points of the compacts that we predict the state will have trouble addressing before a trial judge include: • Even though no exemption is found under state or federal law or treaty, the Governor granted the tribes an exemption for 75% of the state motor fuel tax and the state constitution reserves decisions on taxation and exemptions exclusively for the legislature; • Expenditures out of the state treasury must be appropriated by the Legislature and no appropriation has occurred for the approximately $100 million in payments sent so far to the tribes; • The 18th amendment requires that all motor taxes be placed into the motor vehicle account and used on public roads and the state has no ability to confirm where all the money has gone; and • State tax policy may not be discriminatory in its application and the tribal station operators are receiving approximately 28 cents per gallon in payments that are denied all others. This is truly a major victory for all the citizens and the small businesses that live or operate in the state of Washington. The decision: http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=856613MAJ.
Edited by Rivrguy (08/30/12 08:52 PM)
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#782264 - 08/30/12 09:12 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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Poodle Smolt
Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
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Very cool! Thanks for updating us on this.
While the Tribes will take a hit to their revenues, after seeing the financials for a number of Tribes they might miss it bit, but it will in no way cripple them financially.
It was an unnecessary gift that they really didn't need.
Let's hope that this continues to go in favor of ALL citizens of Washington, not just a select few.
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They call me POODLE SMOLT!
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#782382 - 08/31/12 03:55 AM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Dogfish]
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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1. The sport of choice for the urban poor is BASKETBALL.
2. The sport of choice for maintenance level employees is BOWLING.
3. The sport of choice for front-line workers is FOOTBALL.
4. The sport of choice for supervisors is BASEBALL.
5. The sport of choice for middle management is TENNIS.
6. The sport of choice for corporate executives and officers is GOLF.
THE AMAZING CONCLUSION:
The higher you go in the corporate structure, the smaller your balls become.
Therefore, one might conclude, there must be a ton of people in Washington playing marbles.
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#782387 - 08/31/12 09:58 AM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Dogfish]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Some interesting quotes from the court.
Citing Marbury v. Madision, the majority wrote:
Moreover, the notion that potentially unconstitutional government conduct must be redressed through the legislature is frankly astonishing given the bedrock principle that it is “emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.”
And then this zinger:
Sovereign immunity is meant to be raised as a shield by the tribe, not wielded as a sword by the State.
The court concludes:
While the tribes are necessary parties whose joinder is not feasible due to sovereign immunity, in the circumstances of this case they are not indispensable. We reverse the trial court’s order of dismissal and hold that this action can proceed without the tribes “in equity and good conscience” under CR 19(b).5.
C&P for another read on the decision.
By SHANNON DININNY Associated Press
YAKIMA, Wash. — Opening the door to questions about sovereignty and compacts in Indian Country, the Washington state Supreme Court said Thursday in a split verdict that a challenge to gas tax treaties with American Indian tribes may go forward even though the tribes are not party to the case. Washington state officials have argued that federal law prevents them from collecting gas taxes on reservations. They've opted instead to sign agreements with tribes to mitigate those taxes. Under most motor vehicle fuel compacts, the state reimburses 75 percent of such taxes, and the tribes agree to spend the money on roads. The Automotive United Trades Organization, a trade group representing Washington gas station owners and auto repair shops, says such agreements give tribal retailers an unfair advantage, allowing them to undercut prices. The group filed suit last year in Grays Harbor County Superior Court to have the compacts declared unconstitutional and to seek an order barring the state from making payments from its motor vehicle fund to the tribes. The state argued that the station owners could not sue without including the tribes, and since the station owners could not sue the tribes, which are sovereign nations, they could not sue anyone. The judge agreed and dismissed the case. In a 5-4 decision Thursday, however, the state high court overturned that ruling, saying that justice may not be served when a plaintiff can't sue because an absent party is a sovereign entity. "In such an instance, the quest for `complete justice' ironically leads to none at all," Justice Debra L. Stephens wrote for the majority. "Sovereign immunity is meant to be raised as a shield by the tribe, not wielded as a sword by the state." The conclusion does not minimize the importance of tribal sovereign immunity, the majority said, but rather recognizes that dismissal would immunize the state, not the tribes, from judicial review. In the dissenting opinion, Justice Mary E. Fairhurst wrote that a judgment rendered in the tribes' absence will prejudice their interest in the compacts. Such a judgment will weaken tribes' ability to negotiate future deals and impede their sovereign right to govern their reservations, she said. "This case cannot proceed `in equity and good conscience,'" Fairhurst wrote. "The tribes' substantial interests far outweigh AUTO's much weaker interest in litigating its claim." The decision hinged on whether the plaintiffs had any other remedy if the case is dismissed. The dissenting justices argued that the plaintiffs could attempt to change the law through the state Legislature, but the majority called the idea of redressing potentially unconstitutional government conduct through the Legislature "astonishing." For more than 100 years, courts have concluded that tribes can still be indispensable parties in a case even if they can't be sued as sovereign nations, said Rene Tomisser, senior counsel for the attorney general's office, who called the ruling "surprising." Washington has signed more than 20 fuel tax compacts with tribes and dozens more governing cigarette taxes and gambling revenue. Tomisser said the ruling could make those deals vulnerable and that the court's decision showed "disregard for the impact on tribal sovereignty." He said it was too soon to determine whether the state would appeal. Phil Talmadge, the attorney for Automotive United Trades Organization, said Thursday that he was "very gratified" by the court's decision. Talmadge, a former state Supreme Court justice, raised concerns about money going from the state treasury to tribes without being appropriated by the Legislature, and whether tribes are spending that money on roads as required. "There's no demonstration that the state knows," he said, "and the compact makes it impossible for the public to know."
Edited by Rivrguy (08/31/12 10:05 AM)
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#782390 - 08/31/12 10:27 AM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: ParaLeaks]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7643
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Hmmm.
What's Mitt's favorite game?
Barry's is basketball.
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#782394 - 08/31/12 10:36 AM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 4000
Loc: Ahhhhh, damn dog!
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Hmmm.
What's Mitt's favorite game?
Barry's is basketball. Hide and seek. Fishy
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The idea of a middle class life is slowly drifting away as each and every day we realize that our nation is becoming more of a corporatacracy.
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#782442 - 08/31/12 03:04 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Salmo g.]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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5 - 4 is not much of a surprise as the law is clear but as in all court things once a majority is formed others can run for cover. Will be that way until we stop electing justices.
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#782481 - 08/31/12 08:28 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
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5 - 4 is not much of a surprise as the law is clear but as in all court things once a majority is formed others can run for cover. Will be that way until we stop electing justices. What you say makes some sense, however our supreme court is not elected, and yet arguably, it's decisions suffer from political pressure.
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"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
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#782489 - 08/31/12 09:01 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: blackmouth]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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OK if you say but ....................
The Washington Supreme Court is the highest court in the judiciary of the U.S. state of Washington. The Court is composed of a Chief Justice and eight Justices. Members of the Court are elected to six-year terms. Justices must retire at the end of the calendar year in which they reach the age of 75, per the Washington State Constitution.[1]
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#782516 - 08/31/12 10:06 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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little Washington is different than SCOTUS......
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Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#782517 - 08/31/12 10:07 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
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Excuse me, I was referring to our United States Supreme court, I should have made that clear.
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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill
"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
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#783405 - 09/05/12 09:29 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: blackmouth]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4512
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
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Well the tribes are getting into the money game big time as the elections near. Tim Hamilton, director of the Automotive United Trades Organization, a service-station trade association that has long been critical of the state’s gas-tax deals with Indian tribes, says the tribal interests have been getting their money’s worth at the statehouse. And it’s no wonder they’re willing to pony up. “I don’t have a problem with the tribes or their members,” he says. “But they came to town and saw a for-sale sign on the Rotunda, and they got a phenomenal rate of return. They can turn over $1 million in campaign contributions and get $50 million out of the state treasury each year. Can you blame them? No, I blame the people who put the for sale sign on the building.” The full read. http://washingtonstatewire.com/blog/trib...million-so-far/
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#783421 - 09/05/12 10:53 PM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: Rivrguy]
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WINNER
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 10363
Loc: Olypen
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Lot of truth to that whole line of thinking.....can't blame the tribes. I'd do exactly what they are doing......maybe more.
Others allow it.
simple
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Agendas kill truth. If it's a crop, plant it.
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#783487 - 09/06/12 02:22 AM
Re: State Supreme Rules On Tribal Gas Compacts
[Re: FleaFlickr02]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
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Yup. The tribes aren't doing anything we didn't teach them how to do. As much distaste as I'm sure most of us have for this mess, we should focus on the fact that it is our own corrupt system that makes it all possible. If the courts decide it shouldn't be legal, our elected watchdogs in the Legislature will be more than happy to take some more campaign contributions from the tribes to make it legal. Our Constitution does nothing to protect the citizens; realistically, the moment something rich people want is declared unconstitutional is the moment the meter starts running. Sir, I believe that our, government meter is already spinning like a "whirling devish". Coffee and blue skys in the morn, decaff for me.
Edited by blackmouth (09/06/12 02:52 AM) Edit Reason: diction
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"So it goes." Kurt Vonnegut jr.
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