Lansing, MI.

The day after President Obama spoke to the union faithful in Michigan (MI) yesterday, union members gathered to protest "Right to Work" bills slated to be voted on today in the MI State Legislature.

Violence ensued, arrests were made.

Let me state, I was a union member for nearly 20 years. Intl. Assoc. of Machinists. Local 751.

I don't know exactly what the new "Right to Work" laws in MI will look like. It seems clear however that the union bosses are not a bit pleased.

At Boeing, before retiring in 1991, I had a choice. Be a card carrying member of IAM Local 751, or not. The thing was, Boeing would deduct your monthly union dues from your paycheck regardless of your union membership status. So....why not be a member of the union...right?

Perhaps those defiant UAW guys in MI should start to ask themselves how all these sweet labors deals we had going on led us to this?
Oh and not to besmirch the teachers union, the teamsters, and all the others, I saw you guys waving your signs around today also.

I'm not on either side of the fence yet with this.

Do you think those Chrysler workers would have gotten their job back if they were non-union???

Nope is the answer...

You are a spinner.

And not the good kind.

Why, you've already informed everyone of what they are, right?

"You don't have to pay union dues to work."

I'm sure it is really that simple and that is all there is to it.

Organized Labor's taking it on the chin.....again.

But then I've seen a couple of my Union Brother's land a few as well.

Sad day.

Mf

I won't predict the outcome, but it will be interesting. My question might be, will it be that seniority which presently breeds lazy workers lose union support, or will it create more openings for those lower on the ladder, but will skills and ambition?

Here's a prediction that you can book...average take home pay will drop by about 8 to 15 percent in Michigan now.

You may fool yourself into thinking that with that savings the "job creators" will create more jobs. They will...for travel brokers and yacht manufacturers. They won't create any more in their factories, that's for damn sure.

I don't really like the idea that folks have to pay into the Union in some jobs, in some states, to be honest with you...but this is a 100% fact: in the states where they do, they make more money.

Period.

Pretending that this is good for anyone other than upper management and ownership is either some excellent denial, or just lying.

As with most right wing propaganda, there's a handful of liars, and a mountain of chumps. If you're posting here, you're probably one of the chumps.

Fish on...

Todd

Hank, it's average take home pay that will drop...for the unionized workers (and the hangers on) who keep their paychecks high, there are the rest who will lose a lot more than the 8-15%...that's just the average lost pay.

Speaking of hangers on...the unions need to find a way to make sure that when they collectively bargain for a shop that those who chose to not pay union dues do NOT get the benefit of the union bargaining on their behalf.

Fish on...

Todd

All I care about is getting more people donating to my retirement.......

get to work, you lazy bastages! I need ...............something....... and you're gonna buy it! I love you all!!

KACC paid their workers in Pleasanton, CA at the Center for Technology
more than the unions got for various skill categories. Paid a bit extra
and they could afford to since there no lost time episodes playing
the grievance game and shop stewards and all the rest of the chaff
that goes with the Union.
As was said, some unions are good for all, some are not and breed
offshore employment for those jobs removed from the local scene.

Bravo! the Michigan 'right to work' laws were passed.
Shouldn't have to join any club to have the right to earn a living.

People should be promoted and moved up in position based on what they bring to the table, not how long they've been around.

My garbage man makes a $100k and recently went on strike because the recyclers ONLY make $80k...

If you fired them all and reopened the job for $50k, you'd have a line a mile long of people willing to perform the same unskilled task and theoretically (of course) my garbage bill would go down.

http://autos.aol.com/article/chrysler-rehires-drinking-drugging-workers/

Yep unions are great for the employer and fellow workers

Looks like I need to be a garbage man in your county seeing as the average in the rest of the state is somewhere around 37K-54K.

Waste Management said its most recent previous offer was a six-year deal that would raise average salaries from $58,000 to $68,000 a year. If benefits are included, that offer was worth $98,000 a year to a driver at the end of the sixth year, the company said.


http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-08-01/trash-piling-up-as-strike-drags-on-in-seattle-area


Benefits are a real expense to an employer and a customer.

+1

Michigan already has the highest rate of union membership in the Midwest. It also has the highest rate of unemployment in the Midwest.

Over the past couple of decades, thousands of businesses in Michigan have either closed down or moved facilities overseas.

Did the unions prevent any of that? ....No!

If union bosses really wanted to do some good, they would be organizing protests against our incredibly foolish trade policies. But instead, they tell their members to vote for politicians like Obama and then run out to the stores and fill their carts with huge piles of cheap P.O.S. products that were made in China.

Union workers need to wake up to one fundamental economic fact – in a one world economic system, the big corporations simply do not need you. They can make their products in lots of other countries where it is legal to pay slave labor wages. This phenom is happening in almost every industry where it is possible to do so.

My fiance' voted for Obama and I suggested that she just signed away money that we WOULD have seen, at 55%.

real money out of HER pocket...


She had no idea but thought social issues were more important than financial policies.

oops.

Pay your fair share........You didn't build that.

And I bet you specifically search out jobs that offer no benefits in order to save your employer, and the world in general, money, right?

Yeah...right.

Fish on...

Todd

What is fair about losing the product of multiple generations of blood and sweat left to take care of future generations?

The fact is I will lose contralling interest in MY grandfather's business because I can't afford to pay the tax on what he has left me. I will have to liquidate property, in a down economy, to generate the cash and that will leave distant cousins in control. they didn't have to pay at 55% years ago when their shares transferred.

I expect that to all fall on deaf ears because the many that have nothing expect those that EARNED something to pay for the fact they don't, can't and wouldn't anyways.

My forfeited money will probably be spent paying prevailing wage to a bunch of over paid roadworkers that think they entitled to it.

Those most concerned would certainly benefit from a good finacial advisor along with a healthy dose of foresight.

Come on Todd,

Explain to all of us why the death tax is not high enough at 55% and how we owe that at least to our government masters. Give us a quick rundown about historic death tax rates and how we should be happy to pay 55% rather than something in the high 70's.

As an employer watch my costs and as a customer I... ahhh... watch my costs. I seek services based on cost and quality and benefits are part of those costs and competition keeps those costs low.



You self affirming question is impractical doesn't even make sense Todd.

I am ahead of you there... noted though.


The question is what exactly makes 55% fair?

docspud, I'll answer your question when you find where I even mentioned the "death tax".

Until then you can answer my question.

JTD, those who whine about the high costs of benefits, yet seek out jobs that offer those very same high cost benefits are hypocrites.

Either seek out jobs with no benefits in order to save all the rest of us money, or STFU.

Fish on...

Todd

Unintended Consequences. good book, it even talks about the gov.
gloating about millionare to pauper in 3 generations via the death tax.
Way to go Lenin, oops I mean todd.

As an employer I should seek out a job that doesn't pay benefits or STFU

huh... Still doesn't make sense.


Now call me stupid and insult my mom- that would be the only acceptable response in lieu of an answer and it is what I come to expect on The Darkside.

JTD, you'll note above, should you care to actually calm thefuck down and read it, that I am quoting f4b agreeing with you that benefits cost employers money.

Noshit, Sherlock. They're not free.

I'm just inviting anyone who complains about that and doesn't seek out a job where there are no benefits in order to save us all a bunch of money are hypocrites.

Is that you? If so, then you're a hypocrite.

If not, then I'm not even talking to you.

Fish on...

Todd

So many dumfks here. Nobody is calling for a 55% estate tax. Not Obama and not your beloved Repugs. Obama wants a $3,500,000 exemption and 45% tax rate. I suppose it's nice to see so many of you, for being such idiots, stand to inherit over $3.5 mil. I'm sure whatever share you are left with you'll squander it. If you are really worried about the tax becoming 55% then maybe you need to apply some pressure to your beloved tea party.

Every dollar is taxed multiple times...dozens of times.

I bet you guys are the ones who would win Lotto, and then whine about having to pay millions in taxes...after getting millions in free dollars.

Fish on...

Todd

What other money do you make, with your sweat and equity, that is taxed?

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Hint: all of it.

Which brings me back to my original point...what the fukk does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Fish on...

Todd

Why not make it 100%?

That way you can earn your own f'n money.

Paris Hilton contributes nothing to the world.

Wow read all the posts up to this point and I can see neither side will win here. Someone put it real simple on here there are good unions and ones that drive themselves into the ground just like there are unrepresented businesses. Hank I think you mentioned something about neighboring states that were succeeding. Do you really think it’s because the cost of instate labor is too high? With all this money being cut it will still find its way into someone’s pocket; politicians to start then lobbyists, and the business owners. It’s really simple. If you think of two gas stations across the street from each other. One station sets there price at $1 and the other at $1 they both get rewarded for the gas they sell and both are happy. But if one decides to get greedy and cut price down to .80 the other must reduce their profit to at least .80. Instead of the gas station owner taking the hit he just reduces his workers benefits and wages. This is becoming a fight to the bottom and pure socialism.

How dare you, Sir. How dare you.

Sheesh, Andy...it's not like he told you that Sarah Palin was worthless.

Fish on...

Todd

Funny schitt right there.

Hell, every good conservative needs a Paris Hilton in the back room.

Someone needs to feed the little gay boy they've all got stashed back there.

Fish on...

Todd

and a shorter neck. Up Pariscope!

Boobs are for babies, Butts are for men.
Take care of your own lil gay boy Todd.

A ball gag and a set of bolt on tits.

I know of some balls she could gag on.