I haven't seen any discussion on this. Curious what the general opinion this board is regarding the recent activity in Neah Bay. I found it interesting that some sportsfisherman have evidently cancelled trips (charters) to Neah Bay in protest. On one hand the slaughter of the whale seems inhumane, on the other hand there appears to be some validity to the tribal "right" to do so.

It's really not sport fishing related but I would have more respect if they had truly used traditional means or else cut the farce and motor out, shoot one, hook it to a helicopter and drop it on the beach. What puzzles me is people who are saying that the Makah never kill more than they can use be it Salmon, Elk or Whale. Now that is someone with their head in the sand.

they say we get 50% of the fish and they get 50%....does this apply to whales too? if so does loomis make a whale rod and what test trilene would you use? whale on!!!!!!!><^>

I watched this on tv the other day and the more I saw, the more angry I got. While I am not an extremist or any right wing (or is it left wing) fanatic, I struggle to see why the federal government allows a seperate set of rules to another group of people withing the U.S. boundries. They preach that we should forget the prejudices of the past, yet they allow it to happen every day. The thing that disturbed me the most about the whale hunt was watching people get on top of the whale as they brought it to the beach with what appeared to be beer bottles in their hands. Now I am not an expert on the religious heritage they applied to hunt this whale under, but it seemed to be lacking a religious atmosphere. As a side note, I have heard, not exactly sure on this, that under the same treaty they are hiding behind, I mean, using the justify this hunt, that the use of alcohol is prohibited on the reservation. If this is true, why does only part of the treaty apply? and who gets to decide which paragraphs apply?

I don't have anything agianst killing a whale. the problem I have with the Maka doing it is that agian they are getting special rights!!!! I like what Mr. T said. I wanna go whale fishing to. I allso laugh my self silly when I hear them talking about taking it traditionally. and now they are going to be possibly going after more? must have sold this one before they got it to the beach. sure they divided it up but lets get real they won't eat that much that fast and I'm sure they can get a really pretty penny for it in the country over the horizon. I heard that the Japs offord them $1million for it along time ago. the entire thing has gotten out of hand because this state let them and didn't stop them years ago.

whale on!!!!

The alcohol part of the treaty was changed years ago I believe. (I think it was made so the natives could serve in the Army) I have no objection for the ceremonial whale harvest. However if any part of that whale is sold or leaves the reservation, the person in possesion should be arrested. I think the U.S. has a ban on whale products. Can anyone tell me if this is correct?

The best part about the whole pathetic situation is that the general public is begining to see what thier special rights are all about. They slaughter big game from June 1 through Feb 28. Pregnent females, yearlings, trophy animals it doesnt matter. It's all been well documented and even photographed at times. They can take their treatys and special rights and stick them right up their *** I hope they kill a few more whales, and even get caught selling them so more people will get PISSED OFF at them.

I don't mind the whale hunting idea. What bothers me about the whole thing is the way they went about it while hiding behind the "tradition and custom" bull****! I don't remember much about the Indians going whale hunting and being pulled out to sea by a MOTORIZED boat, or calling someone else on their cell phone to come help haul the mega-ton whale in to shore. And of course, a motor boat showed up to tow it back in!

On the other hand, I'm not sure I want my 50% of their whale, but they damn sure better use every bit of that thing all by themselves! (just like they do the other fish/game they kill!) yeah, right.....

Hello, this is to just about everybody regarding the maka,whales,BAN Indians Etc...
Let me start by saying that I am not a Native American (Indian). The problem seems that almost every sport fisherman and the locals here in seattle seem to be really pissed off at Indians for our short salmon seasons and the lack of it. People are pissed that B.A.N will not affect the Indians and bla bla bla. I really think people should know the facts befor they start talking.
I am an avid sport fisherman, I love to fish for Salmon and Steelheads. I usally fish from April to December, 5 to 6 times week.
I am angry that our seasons are short and a lot of times there are no salmon where they should be, it sucks. But please blame the the ones who are really at fault. I am also a commercial fisherman, I fish in Alaska and Russia. Although our super trawler dosen't fish for salmon our sister ships do. it seem that every one assumes that the Indians are at fault because we always see them setting their nets here in washington, not true. Do you know the salmon comming in to the rivers and the sound here in washington are comming back from sea., like the bering sea and the sea of Ohtsk.The main reson for so little salmon showing up here is due to the trawlers catching a large amount, so what is left of the salmon returning that was not caught buy american trawlers or canadians or russians the indians get. Fact: 1 all the salmon caught by indians in alaska and washington last year is what our trawlers catch in a 6 hour period. Most nets owned by the indians are gill net and very simple with hardly any data(sonnar,radar,suitcaes cam etc.)Our nets can hold 200 tons and can fill this net in a 2 to 4 hr period. Fact:2 we have a very strong support or lobby within our state, especially slade gorton who also owns many boats in alaska. There is no way the govt. in washington will shut our fisheries down in alaska for salmon and off the coast of washington. they profit too much.
All though i make my living as a commercial fisherman, it hurts to see our trawler catch so much salmon(our boat catches pollock only)our sister ship last year was allowed an allocation of IFQ of 500 tons of coho,and sockeyes, no chinooks and 1500 tons of pinks. they ended up catching all of the 1500 tons of the pinks in 2hrs.(on an average it takes the indians about 10 hrs of fishing a day for 3 to 6 week to catch this much) also we over caught the quota for sockeyes and cohos along with over 900 tons of chinooks, do you know what they did with it? By law (N.M.F.S) will not allow them to keep over qouta catch and illegal species (chinook) so they dumped it in the ocean, cant sell it or keep it.I was pissed!
this is waste and it goes on all the time.
The waste you see at hoodsport on the chums is a joke our trawlers throw away 10x as much in a month.
Bottom line is I make my living commercial fishing yet i know all the bad things its doing to the population of our fish. I wish we can do it more responsible. Indians only seem to be the cause but yoy have to look deeper to see where the real depleation is comming from. It is easier to blame them maybe, but dont be a coward, the real blame goes to the american factory trawler association. I won't even go into what the russians do or what they allow us to do in the eez. waters.
waste is done by the american and so are all the profits. the reason for our short comming in the salmon runs is this, not the indians. It suck to work for people who are like this (norewegins especially.)
our industtry is run by cowards. we waste and sell anything for profit. I am in the market for a career change. Does any one need a AB deckhand.

We don't blame the tribes for the whole mess we just get pissed when the waters are closed to the taking of Salmon yet the tribal netters are out almost every single day. I've always said the root of the evil is in Alaska and the floating corporations. They wiped out the herring industry which had to lead to a big decline in salmon right there. Took away their food source. Yes they have a big lobby and the ultimate enemy of the common man, Slade Gorton, on their side. 'THE' ultimate solution, in my opinion, is a nationwide ban on all exports of sea life. We can no longer afford to support other countries just to make the rich richer. Just like the timber industry if we had never allowed exports of our resources there would still be plenty for generations to come. The ultimate irony is that this resource belongs to every citizen of the United States but it's been given to a few fat cats to harvest and sell back to us. And, when all close in waters have been depleted of food to the point that nobody can fish these few big corporations will then control our food supply permanently. The law should be every citizen is allowed two salmon per day and you can do whatever you want with them. You can sell them to buyers on the docks or take them home to eat. But no person or entity should ever be allowed to catch tons. Caught catching tons of fish and you go to prison.

Appreciate the edification. I suppose even this thread of conversation eventually winds itself down to the discussion of resource management, what happend, whose to blame, how we manage it, etc... The comments about the trawlers stripping the seas admittedly make me more ill than a single whale taken by the Makahs. It would seem with balanced and fair management historically, now and in the future the situation we find ourselves in would cease to exist. But then I suppose I am dreamin'.

Let me weigh in on the side of the Makah. This whale hunt IMHO has nothing to do with whales or with culture. It has everything to do with power. The Makah killed that whale because they could. The Makah (and all other tribes that signed the treaty of 1855)do have special rights. Those special rights were granted to the tribes by the Federal Government in the name of the people - that would be us. Now, you and I may not like the fact that they have special rights guaranteed by treaty, but that's just the way it is. A treaty is like a contract. Let the buyer beware. It is ironic that the treaties grew out of the fact that the Indians were a conquered race. But who's the victor now? The Indians have casino gambling, special fishing and hunting rights, sales of tobacco and fireworks all without statutory control by the State. Let's make certain that we understand the motivation of the Makah and other tribes. Let me ask a question - If the Federal Government made a deal with everyone that held a Washington State Steelhead Punch Card that stated you would not pay Federal Income Tax for twenty years - would you take advantage of that special right? The same reasoning holds true for the Makah and the whale. They killed it because they had the power to do so and they chose to exercise that power.

Eddie, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Tight Lines!!

Divers,

I appreciate your being candid on the subject of commercial fishing. If you want change (and it would seem you do) why don't you send copies of your message to every politcal entity in the state that can sway the future of the salmon-starting with the governors office?

Your points are valid and just re-enforce the need for all sportfishermen to unite and lobby under a common theme instead of representing fragmented ideas. Perfect example being Trout Unlimited members supporting BAN yet the morons, er, directors say oppose BAN.

I admire you having the balls to tell it like it is, even if means a career change. If only everyone else in the industry would call a spade a spade and try and set things right.

Down here in Oregon the naturalists are always trying to blame the declining numbers of fish in our streams on the timber industry. I do admit that the logging and road building that goes on does have an impact on the streams that these fish live and reproduce in, but to call logging a major cause for the drop in numbers is crazy. I think as divers stated, that the commercial fishing industry has a much larger impact on the fish than maybe any other single factor. I too work in an industry that requires harvesting products from the earth in order to support myself, and I realize that these fisherman have to do what it takes to keep food on the table, but what about the Japs and others that come and net on our coast lines? Seems to me there must be fish somewhere else that they could catch, or at least that the media could place the blame where it needs to be. I think that we need to stop these foreign fisherman from fishing near our borders, this would give us more fish in the rivers, less pressure on logging, and leave divers with his job. As far as the indians go, I'd be mad to if they were allowed to catch hundreds of them in the nets and I wasn't allowed to catch one on my rod, that is crazy!

Does anyone know how we can keep the foreign commercial fishing from fishing in or near US waters?

I have an old pole vaulting pole with 3/8 inch cable for line, does anyone know what I can use for a reel? Maybe a Warn 10000# winch?

Whale On!!!

Sorry ... I gotta close this thread to solve a bug in the scripting ... feel free to restart it if you like!!! Oh, and my 2 cents worth: they seem to have a couple of tons of food around now, so I'm sure the food stamps, food banks, and aid checks aren't neccessary for some time ... looks like we found a way to fund Reiter.