As noted above, you do not have to pass a NICS test to buy a handgun at a gunshow, or anywhere else in Washington State for that matter, unless you are buying a gun from a registered dealer.

That's also the case in the majority of the states in the country...and accounts for 40% of the handgun sales in the country, too.

The NRA, and assorted fruits and nuts, all blame gun violence on crazy people, not guns...yet they still argue against having background checks for every handgun sale...every time.

Here's the map that shows where you do NOT need a NICS check to buy a handgun from someone other than a licensed dealer (at gun shows or otherwise):

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html

If you are a responsible gun owner, and truly believe that guns are not a problem but that people who shouldn't have guns are the problem, then why in God's name would you argue against making sure that everyone who buys a handgun has to go thru a NICS check?

There's no reason at all.

Fish on...

Todd

Todd, I owe you an apology. I've not been to a gun show in this state that didn't require a BR check. In the scheme of things it's still a very small, insignificant number but I'm wrong and apologize. If we get a chance to meet someday I'll but you the first 2 drinks.

Dogfish, Semi....sorry.

No worries, RvW...but those face to face sales that don't require a background check account for FORTY PERCENT of all handgun transfers in the entire nation.

Forty percent.

That means of the millions of gun sales that take place every year 40% of the new owners did not have to go thru a NICS check to obtain a handgun.

All they needed was cash.

If "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and we don't want to do anything about the guns, then we have to do something about the people, and making sure that felons and crazy people don't get guns is so obviously the very first and most important step that I'm amazed that anyone would be against it.

Anyone, that is, except for the NRA.

I'm not surprised at all that they are against it...in contradiction to 78% of their membership.

Why?

Also as noted above...they don't represent gun owners, they represent the guns and ammo industry, and they are after one thing...money.

Fish on...

Todd

In all fairness I don't oppose the NICS check. For purely selfish reasons it alleviates a lot of liability on my end if the FBI (NICS) gives someone a "proceed" and they do harm with that firearm (God forbid). I've also refused to sell (transfer) a firearm EVEN after a "proceed" from NICS. No sale or transfer is worth my conscience.

I could live with backround checks for all but in reality it would have NO impact, especially as it relates to the last several mass shootings.

The most regulated areas have some of the worst gun violence. I wish there was an easy solution but with 300million people I'm afraid it's not possible.

I read a great essay and will try and get permission to post it here.

I have never been against NICS background checks on arms length transactions. Handing a firearm down to a family member is another issue for me.

At least now we're all on the same page here and can go back to the topic I first posted about.

If 92% of Americans are in favor of closing that loophole, and 78% of NRA members are in favor of closing that loophole, why is the NRA lobbying against closing that loophole?

Who do they represent if they are ignoring nearly four out of five of their dues paying members?

Their corporate puppet masters, that's who...and Wayne LaPierre is the King Sock Puppet.

Fish on...

Todd

Randy, not sure where your post went asking about the numbers, but here's a response anyway:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/18/us/new-york-times-cbs-poll-on-guns.html

Scroll down to "Do you favor or oppose a federal law requiring background checks on all potential gun buyers?"

In Favor: 92% Opposed: 7%

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/media-center/pr006-12.shtml

"74 percent of NRA members and 87 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun."

That one is from last May...I know there's a more current one with higher percentages yet, but couldn't find it in a few minutes of searching...if I get to it tomorrow I'll see if I can find it.

You'll also note in the poll that a majority of NRA members think gun owners should have to pass a safety test to get a permit, be over 21 to get a permit, that only folks who have not committed a violent misdemeanor (or felony) be given a permit, and that anyone with a past arrest for domestic violence should get a permit.

The NRA, of course, opposes every single one of those things...things that a majority of its members want.

Again...who exactly does the NRA represent?

Not its members, that's obvious.

Fish on...

Todd

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/Wi6gZU01yF8
[/video]

Well it seems apparent that the NRA represents the gun lobby and guns rights in general. I am not a member of the NRA and all my guns are papered with me as the owner. I have never been to a gun show and I am not too interested in that sort of thing. Seems to me that the no paper trail "loop hole" is a good way to get around certain laws. Basically my view of the NRA is that it is like an "open shop" union. All gun owners to some extent are effected by its policies and agendas. I am not a big fan, but the way I see it they ARE the only group with any sway on capital hill lobbying for our gun rights. Even though they seem tainted with power at least they are standing up for something. They seem to be the only representation up there for us. Its a double edged sword. Unfortunately the NRA seems like a necessary evil for now.

On another note I am deeply concerned over one thing that this proposed package deal is not getting a lot of attention comparatively speaking. That is the matter of banning all "armor piecing" ammo. By Mr. Kennedy's definition that that includes even hunting ammo like 30-06. Anything that could potentially penetrate body armor is fare game to be banned. Not just the FMJ military surplus ammo. This is a just another excuse to limit our ability to use high powered rifle ammo. Basically we could get regulated out of shooting or priced out of the market. Military surplus ammo is cheap and an economical practice ammo. When was the last time this type of ammo was used to shoot through body armor in the US outside of testing? Where are the numbers justifying banning this ammo? This smells foul.

The real problem I see is we need change, but we cannot trust that the folks on the hill are going to do this in an honest manner.

How often would background checks have to be made to make sure that a person isn't suffering from a dangerous mental disorder?

I've Never belonged to the NRA, and have no intention of joining now. It's been obvious for most of my life that they don't represent the American Gun Owner, only the People that make Guns and Ammunition.

Tom

The Third ??

From reading this thread and especially Todd's posts I get the impression that the main line of bitcherprime's thrust is; he resents anything that seems a facsimile of the US government.

NRA and proud of it.

BTW like the weather. everyone complains about it and yet nothing is ever done about it. Knee jerk politics, knee jerk legislation, knee jerk media
hysteria. ad nauseau. If you really want the government to be in every
face to face, person to person activity, go for it. You will deserve the
results.

Read "Unintended Consequences" if you can find it. More info there on
Waco and Ruby Ridge. Yep kill all religious zealots. That's the answer.

Here's a couple of right wing terrorists who didn't like the ATF, FBI, government, etc, and blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City. Terry Nichols should have been sentenced to death but us taxpayers are keeping him alive in bomber's row. Timothy McVeigh was executed.

Terry Nichols

Timothy McVeigh

So it seems we all pretty much agree that we should crack down on the Nuts with Guns right?

(I bet that's going to hurt )

The NRA has motives. They started a rumor that Obama had started a drive to ban ALL guns. This was right after the first election. I searched every piece I could find on the subject and as it turned out he had NEVER said anything close. As a matter of fact it wasn't even on a priority list or any other list. So, why would they start a rumor like that? This is the same NRA that George Bush senior canceled his subscription to because they called the FBI a bunch of jack booted thugs. Look it up. Hank, if you were the president and a multitude of innocent people and mostly children have been killed over relatively short period of time, and you’re getting pressure from law enforcement , parents of dead children and a sh1t load of other groups how would you handle it? I believe in the right to own guns and I also believe that people kill people and not guns. I carry a titanium 38 everywhere I go. BUT, if you look at some of the stupid, dick headed, dumb ass d-bags that are buying guns at some of the gun shows without a background check it’s like giving a baby a razor blade to play with. Unfortunately in this case other people get hurt and not just the baby. Even if they don’t as of yet have a criminal record they should not be allowed to carry or buy a gun period! A lot of, if not all of the assholes that are mass killing people have mental issues. Granted some of them were using guns that belong to parents or relatives but most were not. These people are mentally ill. So should we wrap a nice assault rifle with a 30 round mag and give it to them for Christmas? That crazy bastard in Aurora Colorado was a f#cking nut case. All you had to do was look at his face it had nut case written all over it. Do you think that he would be denied a rifle at a gun show? F#ck no! That’s the kind of sh1t people are sick of. The NRA is just another extension of the current mean spirited, slimy, greedy pseudo Christians in the Republican Party, pseudo Christians that don’t even come close to being a real Christian. You can just feel the hate and disdain they have for a black president. They can’t stand it. I’ve said this before the only reason they voted for a Mormon was to stop a black man from being elected. If there was another non-Mormon candidate they would have voted for him as long as the candidate was white. So again, let’s start rumors and anything else we can do to get that black bastard out of office! Would that ease a lot of this? I bet you would love it wouldn’t Hank?! It’s funny that those great conservative politicians you are voting for are f#cking you right where you sit and you just keep voting for them. I hope it hurts when you sit down! If you have kids regardless of their ages it might be time to think about the kind of world we are leaving them. You and I probably won’t be here when the sh1t hits the fan but they w

JFC. I just read this thread. You never cease to amaze. I honestly don't get it? You need to expand your world. And the next time you post, think about how wrong you were and how that you could possible be wrong again.

Here is a partial list that took 1.24 seconds to find:

Jan 26-27 Lynden, Northwest WA Fairgrounds1775 Front St, Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com

Feb 2-3 Port Angles, Port Angles Masonic Temple, 622 S. Lincoln Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Feb 9-10 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/

Mar 2-3 Vancouver Clark County Fairgrounds Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440
Mar 9-10 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Mar 16-17 Custer, Custer Sportsman Club, 3000 Birch Bay - Lynden Rd. Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Mar 16-17 Enumclaw, Expo Center, 45224 284th Ave SE Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440
Apr 6-7 Bremerton, Kitsap County Fairgrounds, 1200 NW Fairgrounds Rd. Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Apr 13-14 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Apr 20-21 Okanogan, Okanogan Co Fairgrounds. 175 Rodeo Trail Road, 90 Tbls 6' $35 www.NorthwestGunShows.com 509-795-0308 info@northwestgunshows.com

May 4-5 Vancouver Clark County Fairgrounds Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440
May 18-19 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/

Jun 1-2 Ferndale, silver Reff Casino Event Center, 4876 Haxton Way Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Jun 15-16 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Jun 29-30 Bremerton, Kitsap County Fairgrounds, 1200 NW Fairgrounds Rd. Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com

Jul 13-14 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Jul 27-28 Lynden, Northwest WA Fairgrounds1775 Front St, Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com

Sep 7-8 Port Angles, Port Angles Masonic Temple, 622 S. Lincoln Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Sep 28-29 Ferndale, silver Reff Casino Event Center, 4876 Haxton Way Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Sep 28-29 Vancouver Clark County Fairgrounds Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440

Aug 24-25 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/

Sep 14-15 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Sep 21-22 Enumclaw, Expo Center, 45224 284th Ave SE Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440
Sep 21-22 Okanogan, Okanogan Co Fairgrounds. 175 Rodeo Trail Road, 90 Tbls 6' $35 www.NorthwestGunShows.com 509-795-0308 info@northwestgunshows.com

Oct 5-6 Bremerton, Kitsap County Fairgrounds, 1200 NW Fairgrounds Rd. Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com
Oct 5-6 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Oct 26-27 Lynden, Northwest WA Fairgrounds1775 Front St, Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 General admission $6; $1 discount for military & law enforcement; 2 day pass $9 Contact info: falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com


Nov 9-10 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Nov 23-24 Custer, Custer Sportsman Club, 3000 Birch Bay - Lynden Rd. Sat 9-5 sun 9:30-3 falconshows@aol.com 360-202-7336 www.falcongunshows.com

Dec 7-8 Vancouver Clark County Fairgrounds Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440
Dec 14-15 Centralia SW Washington Fairgrounds – I-5 Exit 79, 2555 N National Ave 150 Tbls SU:Fri 3-7, Sat 7-9 Sun 8-9 SH: Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3 A: $6 email: wesknodel@aol.com 503 363-9564 wesknodelgunshows.com/
Dec 28-29 Enumclaw, Expo Center, 45224 284th Ave SE Collectorswest.com 1-800-659-3440

Heck, the guy just discovered Centralia.

JFC you obviously really like following me around, guess what genius, i found the rest right after i posted that...

i dont go around looking for ways to go to shady gun shows and get guns the WRONG way... i go to the MAIN one that everyone knows about if i choose to go...

i also wasnt "wrong" dingbat, i also never told Todd he was "wrong", i said not entirely true...

for WAC shows, i was dead right... so just like i said to Todd, im not "totally correct", but im not "dead wrong"...

JFC is right...

I remember my first bird bomb's as a kid from a gun show...