Has anyone seen the new regulations on the Hoh. On the Hoh, a hatchery steelhead is now considered a fish with a dorsal fin shorter than 2 and one quater inches because the USFWS had trouble marking hatchery steelhead.
This is such bs for two reasons. First of all, are fisherman are now going to have to manhandle the fish to see if its a hatchery fish. Holding the fish, holding up its dorsal fin and measuring it puts alot of stress on fish plus this is going to allow for people to come up with excuses to kill more than their 2 wild steelhead because measuring the dorsal is not an exact science. Does this seem to be more anti-wild steelhead realease regulations to you like it does to me? The new regulations go into effect Nov 17. It seems a little late now to write them and try to fight it but we should all write them and ask who came up with such a stupid rule.
Tight Lines
Ryan

Special ... ooops, couldn't help it!!! I haven't heard anything on this. Can you give me some info as to where this came from??? Thanks!

Found it at: http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/do/newreal/nov1799a.htm ... what a joke ... go ahead WDFW, put another nail in the coffin of the wild fish. I'm sure many of the smaller wild fish (yes, there is such a thing) will now get bonked. How come we never heard anything on this two years ago when these fish were released??

Maybe I read the rule wrong, but it seems to me that the rule would mean more wild steelhead released. I read it as "in addition to marked fish". I just hope that it doesn't get used as an excuse not to mark hatchery fish in the future.

[This message has been edited by AkBill (edited 11-18-1999).]

The rule states 'or':
"rule change adopted today, the department will consider any steelhead in the Hoh and South Fork Hoh rivers a hatchery fish if it has a dorsal fin measuring 2 1/4 inches or less in height when fully extended, OR if it has a missing adipose or ventral fin. Hatchery-bred steelhead typically have a smaller dorsal fin than wild fish.

The rule states 'or':
"rule change adopted today, the department will consider any steelhead in the Hoh and South Fork Hoh rivers a hatchery fish if it has a dorsal fin measuring 2 1/4 inches or less in height when fully extended, OR if it has a missing adipose or ventral fin. Hatchery-bred steelhead typically have a smaller dorsal fin than wild fish.


[This message has been edited by RPetzold (edited 11-18-1999).]

Yeah, I did misinterpret the rule, thanks RP.

geez.... is the department trying to damage the fish runs on the hoh. first, they close it down early 3 out of the last 4 years. then they propose to do away with the annual limits and do away with a selective fishery area. now this. i truly don't get this, it's almost as bad as the voluntary release requirements on the queets.

i guess it's too much to ask for people to just mark the damn hatchery fish right so that we don't have rules like this to circumvent the wild release rules in effect upstream of the 101 bridge.

if anyone can please tell me what the department is trying to do to this run, please speak *g*. oh, well... i guess i'll be sending some more letters.

chris

Guys, I think we need to lighten up here. Maybe i'm naieve, but I'm prepared to accept that someone (USF&WS) had a problem with their adipose clipping and this seems to be a reasonable approach to adding another method of identification for hatchery fish. I agree that it would have been better had they not mismarked the fish, but they have, so be it. I have fished many years on Salmon River and the Quinaults do not mark their fish. I have never had a problem identifying a wild fish on that river. The hatchery fish dorsal is always ragged and short. The wild has a tall dorsal with straight lines (not ragged). And it doesn't make it any easier due to the fact that Salmon River has some huge hatchery fish. This is an easy identification to make while the fish is still in the water by reaching down and extending the dorsal. I agree that the wild kill proposal on the Peninsula is bogus but I just don't see the connection with this proposal on the Hoh. Just my 2 cents.
Tight lines

The problem is that it is a roll back to the early eighties. This method, the card, was stopped for a reason. My thinking was that it lead to people grabbing a fish by the dorsel fin. Since steelhead survive and return to the sea an undamaged dorsel is most likely necessary for survival.

OK, I have a few words to say... I know for a fact that a few years ago, the Elwah river TRIBAL steelhead hatchery did not bother clipping all, or even any of the smolts they released. Therefore making a wild steelhead release unthinkable and unfair in the eyes of most sporties, and I am one that saw it as unfair. To this day, I know for a fact that they are still maybe if we are lucky, clipping 50% of the fish, in order to "leave more for the nets" as I see it, And as I know to be true, I have never caught a true native fish (What appeared to be) That had a ruffled dorsal, unless it had other marks on it, such as seal marks, whatever... But I have kept tabs on all of the "MARKED" fish that I have caught, and probably 95% of all of them had ruffled, or almost missing adipose fins. As well as fishing on the Elwah and Lyre, and catching 5 or 6 fish in a day, and all of them are right around the same size, same condition, same fin characteristics, except for most of them had INTACT ADIPOSE FINS! While known to me as hatchery fish, they were unclipped.. why don't they put some sort of regulation like the Hoh Dorsal reg on the rivers that really need it/could use it?

Tom

Hey Tom I think you already answered your own question. They want to leave more fish for the nets. It really makes no other sense to choose not to clip the fish. Here's another intersting note on the same line just different river.
The natives on the Columbia have teamed up with the Idaho fish and game in a similar scandal. They have convinced the Idaho Fish and game dept to release 600,000 smolts in the South Fork of the Clearwater (Idaho) river UNCLIPPED! I just don't get it. Well, I do. This will mean that the fish counters will no longer be able to distinguish hatchery vs. wild and the wild fish run will be artificially increased by hatchery fish. Then the natives can say "the fish are having a good year, so we should be able to take more wild fish this year". But guess who gets the short end of this deal, sportsmen. This will most likely bring higher harvest rates for the natives (and yes other commercial fishermen) yieldiing even lower returns than present now. Do you think an dorsal fin lenght rule will occur here, I think not.
I just saw this in the Lewiston Daily news on Monday. If anyone has any more info on this I would be interested. Info such as the scientific reasoning behind the decision. Only reason they stated in the article was that they are hoping to get more native fish into the SF Clearwater. But I thought that the majority of the management believes that a hatchery fish is genetically different than a wild fish, won't this dilute any existing wild genetic stocks if the hatchery fish do take hold. Isn't this why they halted hatchery production on the upper columbia river tribs like the Wenatchee. Don't hatchery fish have a pitifully low reproduction rate as it is. Why not clip the darn fish and still release them in the same place and hope for some natural reproduction and still allow some sportfisherman the opporitunity to catch the fish they are paying for.

Duke

I think Eddie has a point, but if you're thinking of keeping a steelhead based on its dorsal height, here's a thought:
The only time I've been busted for anything was in '84 or '85 when I kept a small, obviously hatchery fish in the Snoqualmie. It was only about 4 lbs and had concrete-worn fins. But I measured the dorsal anyway, with my state issued wallet card,in its natural upright position to confirm it was under the 2" requirement. Along came two WDG enforcement officers with a pair of PLIERS! One yanked the fin up at a full 90 degrees, measured over 2" and gave me a ticket!
My advice is that you first ask the local agents how they define "fully extended." It could save you a lot of grief.

duke, the south fork clearwater doesn't have a hatchery. the fish realeased in that system come from the dworshack hatchery on the north fork clearwater. if the fish don't have a hatchery to go back to won't they try to naturally spawn. it seems to me they're are plenty of hatchery bred spawners in the south fork already. i wish i would have seen the article you spoke of. it makes no sense letting more hatchery fish spawn with wild stock than already are. i've landed only one wild fish from the south fork and it was a truely beautiful fish. i would hate to see these treasures dilluted even more.