Had a chance to practice many different rigs yesterday and gain some confidence in using my new level wind reel (I LOVE it!!! Can't believe I waited SO long!!! What a pansy I am!!!). We were on the Green for 6 hours...hiked to the truck just past sundown! Absolutely BEAUTIFUL DAY!!!

So now some QUESTIONS FOR THE MASTERS!

DIRECTION TO FISH A RIVER:
The guy I fish with always starts at the BOTTOM of the river and works his way UP! My thinking would tend toward just the opposite! The logic being that if I'm hiking UP the river, I'm spooking the fish BEFORE I get to a good drift! Does it make a sizeable difference???

RIGGING SANDSHRIMP:I think it was Bob that said he ties his hooks with more wraps so he has better contact for the squirmy little things...so do I, but I'll be DARNED if I can get the line to lay over their body and cinch down! What's the trick???

GEAR MANAGEMENT:I don't have a fishing vest yet, (remember, I've been fishing on the Sound! Don't need one out their!) I used a large fanny pack for most of my gear and had my backpack for the bulkier stuff! Do you use the binders for you pre-tied leaders??? I don't have a setup that's very user friendly on the rivers...my stuff is too time consuming and awkward! VERY INEFFICIENT!!!

LANDING A FISH:
As I stood ankle deep, knee deep, and butt deep in water yesterday, I'm thinking...HOLY HECK, if and WHEN I DO get a decent fish on, I could SERIOUSLY be in trouble! THEN WHAT??? I mean it's all well and good to be trying different jig setups, pink worms, sandshrimp, etc., but eventually, SOMEONE'S gonna visit my hook. So...whilst I'm standing in the current and DO make contact what's your advice for NOT going for a swim and STILL LANDING the fish??? I use a STICK to stay upright getting out there NOW, so how the HECK am I gonna control my retrieve AND land a FISH???

SOFT WATER AREAS:
There's a spot on the Green that's like a pond...beautiful place...little waterfalls trickling down the hillside calm water on a bend. One of the most important things I think I've learned this season regarding Steelhead is that they are TROUT! Duh!?!? You may all be saying, but before this year I had always thought they were in the Salmon category! Bob's, "about the fish" section finally got me to see the err of my thinking! Soooo...since I started out my love for fishing by TROUT fishing, and did very well at THAT, I think I can get this Steelhead thing...eventually!!!

NOW to the slow water...it seems to me that pond like places at the end of a run of white water could be a productive place! Is that bogus thought, or is it valid??? Part of my frustration when I'm trying out techniques is WHERE I want to get my gear...and then...of course...HOW to get it there. On the rivers I find deep slow areas of water, and my instincts tell me that this should be trout territory, but if I'm wasting my time, let me know! Also, I fished at the DOWN side of a good sized waterfalls...is that a GOOD idea???

GUYS WITH SPOONS:
NO...not guys waiting for a bowl of Chili to warm their bones...yesterday there were a couple guys casting spoons on the Green...they seemed like they knew what they were doing...never saw that before! They were pretty good sized spoons! What up wit' dat???

I'm sure I have a ton more questions, but I don't want to tax the "MASTERS" too much!!! Thanks for any light you are willing to shed!!!

Hope you're enjoying the weekend!
L

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"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds!" Albert Einstein

All though I'm a long way from a master I have some tips for you. The leaders I use I keep in PIPS boxes. They are little round leader holder about 4 inches around. They work well for me. Cost is about 4-7 dollars each. As for deep wading and big fish. Don't go past your comfort level. I have been dunked a few times and it is very wet doing that. With chest waders they can suck you down and then you're in deep kaka. I have an inflatable vest that I pull a cord and POOF I float. They are spendy though. All the rest I can't really say much on. Spoons I don't use much, sand shrimp I have the same problem.

I'll only reply to a couple of your questions now. As far as which direction to work a river, it all depends on what technique you are using. For drift fishing, spoon fishing,etc. I will always work my way downstream. This is just a natural way to fish this type of gear, by casting across the drift and letting the current swing your gear through the drift. When float and jig fishing I will always work my way upstream, casting straight up into the drift and letting it float back towards me while taking in the slack line. I do this for several reasons, mainly because I pick up a lot of fish right next to shore in the soft edges and aroud logs boulders etc. I feel I have less of a chance spooking these fish while working them from below. My favorite summer steelhead stream is just a trickle in late August and September and the fish are ultra spooky in the gin clear water. By working upstream the fish never see me and usually hit my jig on the first cast. If I was working downstream I would damn near have to crawl to avoid spooking the fish. Another reason is to present the jig with a totally drag free drift. This is essential to consistently hook steelhead on jigs. As far as spoons go they work very well, especially on big natives. In case you haven't figured it out yet, I fish both techniques. I will usually fish upstream with jigs and then turn back and work my way downstream with spoons. This really gives me a chance to cover all the water and I don't believe I miss many fish if they are in the section of river I am fishing. Enough rambling for now, maybe someone else can take the other questions. Fish On!!!!!

[This message has been edited by B Mac (edited 02-19-2000).]

I don't know if the helps but here is my experience:
I have always tried to walk upriver when bank fishing, especially on smaller rivers or when the water is ultra low. This gives me the chance to slowly look over the holding water from below the fish. So I can see them before they see me if they are laying in close to the bank or in the shallow water. But if i do not see any fish in the shallow water or close to bank I proceed to the top of the hole and work my way downriver. as to present my offering in front of the fish. In these conditions it seems best to walk up river and then survey the water and fish the holding water from top to bottom.
I can give you a tip on the sandshrimp: you either need to use just the tail and rig it they way bob shows in his tips section (best with rags or aeroflies). If you want to use the whole shrimp (best plain or with just a corkie or similar bobber) the best thing to do is thread the tail up the leader and have the hook push through the hard part of the head so the point is sticking out. Also, I have found that with whole shrimp a smaller hook is better as the big hooks tear the shrimp up. An oldtimer showed me this trick on my home river, he said the shrimp has to be laid out flat as to look natural as it drifts down, not all balled up. One other note, if you want to fish shrimp whole make sure they are fresh, otherwise they will "explode" when you go to cast.

I hope this helps you.

good luck

No master here, but have had great success this year simply fishing a sandshrimp tail under a float. Follow Bob's directions. Once the shrimp tail is on the hook, just worry about getting the loop around the final segment on the tail, the one that was closest to the thorax. This doesn't leave anything sticking up past the hook eye and reduces spin. Also, when you pull the head off the tail, check to see you also pull off the several legs that sometimes come with the tail. This also reduces spin.

Farm girl I don't get paid enough to be a master.
I try and answer some questions and agree with some of the other posts.

River Direction- Bank fishing I usually fish from the top down. Exception to the rule is ultra clear water and site fishing. I find it far easier to wade downstream without a disturbance than up. I am careful when fishing to cover water that could hold fish I might spook. I have had instances where I have waded between fish and the shore on accident while wading downstream. Now that will wake you up!!!


SandShrimp Rigging- My fiancee likes to call the bait loop a seat belt for the sandshrimp.
There a number of ways to rig shrimp depending on number of hooks, style of fishing(jigs,drifting, bait divers). There is a great product by Beau Mac that is a bait rigging tube used for single hooks. When I use doubles for shrimp I like to separate the hooks a little more so I can bait loop the top portion of the shrimp and stick the bottom half of the with the second hook.

Gear management- I use a vest, pretie my leaders stored in a pips leader container. small snap boxes for my swivels. I have a link to what I carry in my vest. I can rerig standing in the water with out losing my spot. http://www.steelheader.net/steelhead/steelhead_vest.htm


Landing a fish- First you have to hook them!!
I deal with the second part after that. But I do recommend not wading over your comfort zone. I also carry a wool glove in case I am in a tight spot trying to land the fish. It can really help you control the fish long enough to release it unharmed.If you can reach down and unhook it with pliers without touching the fish. (Try running a marathon then hold your breath for a picture) If you are having trouble wading get felt soled bottoms on your boots. (Huge diffence while wading)

Soft water- Steelhead lay in all types of water depending on the river size and current flow. One of the most important parts of steelhead fishing is the ability to read water. More casts in productive water means more hookups and more fish landed. Many fishermen spend excess time fishing dead water. It is a art form reading holding water.

Spoons- heavy spoons get to the bottom where fish live and bite. Spoons will trigger aggressive and subtle strikes from fish. Most spoons are to light for the water they are used in. Spoons need to be fished (bounced along) bottom of the river. They can also be used to draw fish out of there protective cover for a strike. (boulder field or log jam)

Hope that helps......
Tight lines

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Marty
www.steelheader.net
marty@steelheader.net

Ok, though I know about all of that other stuff, I don't have time to explain it all right now. A tip for keeping your leaders is to wrap them around your fingers, them wrap gummed packing or pressman's tape around the leaders. The adhesive bonds only when it is wet, and it wont mess up your line. When you need a leader, simply undo the tape, straighten it out, and fish.

Tight Lines,
The Chum Man

Hey Girlie,Greetings from the Zipper,Looooowww and clear spooky fish DAH!Steelhead -O cuthroat- 3,anyway so much for my boring trip ,back to your questions I've used a fishing fanny back for the lasy 3 years and love it !! the problem with my vest was I carried so much stuff that my shouders would get sore,I use a small back pack for the extras now. I like to approach a hole from the bottom check the water and start in close then work my way out ,I'll offer i type of bait or rigging , then go back thru the best water with something different it's the change inlook that sometimes triggers a strike. good luck FarmGirl hang in there

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Tight Lines
<*)>><------FISH ON!!!

Great helps guys!!! Thanks!!!

I'd STILL love to hear from anyone else that has an opinion!!! The "Masters" thing dates back to a post I wrote to Bob on here saying I felt like I was "learning from the Masters on this BB"!

Another question regarding gear management...What about JIGS??? My Pip wouldn't hold many if I went that route, and I think the feathers would suffer!!! I like the tape idea for leaders, but, again, as far as JIGS go it seems like they'd get damaged!

That brings up ANOTHER question...(God, lucky for me I've got YOU guys in my life!!!) Okay...when I fish with jigs for Kings on the Salt, I use a snap to hook and unhook my Pt. Wilson Darts, or whatever I'm jigging. Why can't I use one of them for the jigs in the river??? For Steelhead??? Do you all tie up your jigs to your leaders or does anyone use the snap system?? I haven't tried the clip system on the rivers, cause it never sounded like anyone DOES this, but when I was out with a friend earlier in the season, we snapped on my Wiggle Wart and some other gear! Why not for jigs while wading in the river???

My boots HAVE felt bottoms...I think I'd be DEAD if I tried wading in lug soles! I think maybe...until I'm more adept at hiking in the water, I should stay out of the deeper stuff!!! Comfort zone...good word!!! Come to think of it I could just bring my pole to the chair by the woodstove and cast from there! It's pretty comfortable THERE!!! Kidding!!! Just KIDDING!!! It's the same thing when I've climbed trees or rocks...I can get UP just GREAT...but when I turn around and have to get BACK...then I'm in trouble!!! I think I need to be more careful than I have been!!!

I hunt and stalk fish when I fish in the Puget Sound, and I just realized that I get so busy on the river, trying gear and figuring out where to cast, that I many times forget that I'm actually HUNTING there too...this amazes me, cause 1/2 the draw for fishing is the hunting aspect!!! I'll have to work on that!

I thank you for the helpful info you've taken the time to share...I look forward eagerly to any others bits of advice ahead!!!

Hope you get to enjoy the day!!! Now I' gonna go take more Ibuprofen...I over did it on Friday!!! Owwww!

L

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"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds!" Albert Einstein

I tie my jigs when I need them. Which means on the water. I bought some small twosided boxes at Kmart that work great for jigs. I just throw them in the back of my vest. Same goes for spinners. The boxes were like a buck a piece. They have varying sizes. You said in one post that you use a stick for wading. When I know I will be up to my belly in water, I bring an old ski pole to use as a wading staff. The point digs in well and I can attach the handle to a string to allow it to flow behind me. But BEWARE of turning without it in hand. Trip, splash, and wet. A thrift store is a good place for those.

Farmgirl,

I am no master but I have learned allot by asking questions on this page and when I see some one on the river doing something I think I might wanna try. when a guy catches a fish I don't run over and pester him I might wait untill later and mention to him I knoticed he was using what ever and shoot the bull about it and other things maybe not even fish. that way it don't seam as if I am trying to "bird dog" his style. As for wading? *L* I can tell you from experiece that it only takes 1/2 step and you are a human bobber . I am 6'5" and around 220 lbs.(22 and single *L*) I was in water knee deep but next to a drop. I took one step to close and I slid in. the water was swift and I couldn't get my balance. I was wearing chest waders and thought I was dead. I reached around and pulled the rip cord and paddled over to the beach. the amazing thing was buy the time I walked 100 yards down the river to my truck the water was just getting to my feet. My point is that the vest when inflated held my waders tight and very little water got in and I was able to get out of the river. with out the inflatable vest I would have probably had to drop my rod and peel the waders off so I could swim. If possible get one if not keap in mind the danger of wading. I have talked with several old timers and younger guys that all say the same thing. If you gotta wade then you gotta. the thing about wading when water is low and clear is that it will sceer the fish for along way off. think about how sound is trasmitted through the water. all those rockes grinding is like a giant speaker blasting in their little ears! As for fishing up or down. I generally fish if possble from top down. mostly beacause that just because I park and the holes are uaually below the parking spot. if possble when water is low I will fish up but that is more difficult when drift fishing. As for leaders. I get the fome pipe insulation from a hardware store and cut it into lengs to fit a pocket in my vest or where ever I wanna put them. I use the stuff that is about 1 1/2" O.D.(outside diameter)I think I paid $1.29 for 6 foot. I have seen guys use larger and put a string through the center and sling it over their shoulder.(like a purse) putting the roll behind them to be easily pulled front side and unrolled. With the round fome you can put you're corkies and yarn or what ever yopu want on and have that much done before you go fishing. you can even pre-tie a barrel swivel on the leaders and just snap them onto yer snap swivel allready tied to yer mainline. some guides do this to save time when re-rigging gear for a client. saves time if you know what you want to use for colors but if not you will only have a few tied up of the colors that are working then you are back to making them on the river. one other tip when rolling leaders up I put the end of the line through the eye 2x so it won't unroll then I cut the extra off so it looks nice.(I allways make my leaders a little room to play with the length to match it to the water I am fishing) I don't put the little barrel swivel on so this works well but if you do then just tuck it under the hook 2x. some guys will use a little bit of tape but I think in the rainy weather it would lose it's sticky and then I would have lose leaders all over. I fish mostly out of my drift boat so this really help keap things out of the way.and when I am doing it from the banck it help so I have everything put away and not nead allot of stuff with me. as for a pack I just started using a butt pack and I kinda like it. I need to get a bigger one and with it and a small flat tackle box that I can see in the top of with all the little compartments (can't think of their name) a small one about 8x10 is jusr right with all my corkies and extra small things. then you can put the bait in the butt pack and a little gear in yer vest and yer ready to look like you know what is going on. the next thing you need is confidence. and that will come when you hook yer first few fish.
one other tip about where to find the fish in the river. read some books about steelie fishing and salmon. I got allot of info from a book by Bill Hertzog(that might be spelled wrong) it is called "A Collor Giude to Drift Fishing" by Bill Hertzog. found it at Sportco. I credit it to most of the info I used to catch my first mettle head. That and going with someone that could put me in the right spot and help me out.

now that must be the longest post I have done. I am ready to go to bed now.

Hope that all helps, any questions let me know, sometimes I get going and don't make things clear.

dcrzfitter

Good stuff!!!!!!!

That's TWO words of advice for the inflatable vest!!! Guess I'd better hit Sportco...AGAIN!!! AND, buy myself a book or two while I'm at it!!! I emailed someone saying that I need to get a license plate holder that reads "I'D RATHER BE SHOPPING AT SPORTCO!!!"...FORGET the Nordstroms variety of license holder...I'd MUCH prefer to spend my money at the Tackle shop!!! And they GET it too!!!

Sounds like I just need to keep putting in my hours on the river and it will eventually come! Sheesh! I love it though!

When I go out this week I'll try staying OUT of the water for as much time as I can so as not to telegraph my arrival to the fishies!!!

Rains today...maybe my fish will be ready tomorrow or Thursday and Friday!!!

Have a great day today!
L

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"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds!" Albert Einstein

I'm no expert, but a few books by those who are:

STEELHEAD JIG FISHING: TECHNIQUIES AND TACKLE by Dave Vedder and Drew Hawthorne

COLOR GUIDE TO STEELHEAD DRIFTFISHING by Bill Herzog
(SUPER book!!!)

SPOON FISHING FOR STEELHEAD by Bill Herzog
(GREAT book!!!)

SPINNER FISHING FOR STEELHEAD, SALMON AND TROUT by Jed Davis

All of these books are available thru SALMON, TROUT, STEELHEADER magazine or at SPORTCO or OUTDOOR EMPORIUM.

Components to make your own spoons and spinners are available from MORTAC (ph# 1-800-247-6300) or ZIGZAG (ph# 1-800-684-3984). You can build a better spoon or spinner out of quality components and cheaper than pre-made, cheap, store ones.

As to baiting sandshrimp.......hook them thru the thorax and eggloop the remainder onto the hook. As steelhead guide, Ken Elsea once told me: " Too many people get into their own version of the anatomical correct way to hookup a sandshrimp."

As to a fishing vest vs. a waist pouch......my wife uses the pouch with a couple of small plastic gear boxes and a PIPS leader wheel and loves it.

Have fun!!!