It is too bad that even something s enjoyable as fishing has to become a controversial. I do however get tired of hearing the indians whine. I think they should have to follow the same restrictions we do. After so many years aren't we ALL americans? Shouldn't EVERYONE do what we can to preserve the species for future generations and more years of fishing?

Hey steelheader69,
Ya got your European history a little crossed up. It was the Prussians who formed the German state out of a group of duchies,bishoprics, principalities and electorates and put them under the rule of the Hohenzollerns who were (guess what?) the ruling house of Prussia.

Preston S. Interesting note on the Hamma Hamma. WE used to go there when I was young and camp at Hidden Cove which no longer exists. Mom and Dad would fish the hole in from of the delta for kings. Had not heard that name for it. To be sure it had a lot of fish back then but alas that is not the case now.
Potter I will try to find those books down here. They sound like interesting reading.

Jeez ... what ever happened to the day when we could laugh openly about the funny things in the world and the differences among us???

I didn't find the original post demeaning ... to someone from outside the area, the names of these streams taken literally are pretty funny. Anyone remember Edgar Martinez's Mariner's ad with the Latin Americans learning how to say "Geoducks in Pullayup"?

It's funny how it has become "demeaning" to have sports teams named "Braves" and "Redskins", but the same doesn't apply for "Yankees" or "Pirates". Do religous group throw a fit over the "Angels"?

On another note, for those wishing to know the meanings of the N. coast stream names, you can visit the page titled "More About the Rivers" in the WA section of the site.

Bob- While you were up there becoming a Dawg in the 80's I was guiding for springers just up the creek (Will.@O.C./Clack.- Tillamook for fall/winter)from where you grew up. L.O.? When you were in grade school there, my buddies & I would on rare occassions catch a steelhead out of the lower L.O.Creek near the park/Will.(don't think they nose in there anymore). Anyway, do you think Edgar M. was trying to say "Go Ducks"? - Steve ---------------------------------------------To Hohwaiian below: When I recently became a new participant on this Bb I would not have dreamed I'd be discussing racial sesativity- and wheather this is an appropriate forum or not, I will take an opportunity to maybe create a better understanding- & hopefully some healing.- I think U may have answered your own Q about being unusually quite oversensative about harmless puns- lighten up! For ANYONE to take an obvious harmless pun such as "I got lei'd in Hawaii" as meaningful is beyond oversensative to chip on your shoulder wrongfully defensive- and about as silly as to take your nickname, Hohwaiian, as to mean that U are suggesting that the 50th state of my country is one big whorehouse! How dare U (jk- means just kidding).- I also think that Native Americans were the first to call themselves "braves" & "Redskins"- thus shouldn't be taken as derogatory. They used "paleface" for that. Would I be upset if an all Indian team called themselves the Forks Palefaces? Maybe a little- but only because of obvious derisiveness (unlike the Braves), but I wouldn't make it worse by making a big deal of it- I'd probably laugh w/ amusement & let it go... Sometimes the absurdity of it all makes me lol. As for the word "niggers", that was conjured up in the south as an obvious racial slure to belittle African Americans. That is entirely different and is inappropiate. Although I find it revealing about the human condition that many Blacks think little of it when one of their race use that "N" word toward each other.- If oversensitivity & absurd demand for "political correctness" continue to grow in this country I believe it has more potential to divide rather than unite us. I don't want it to get to the point that should I say to my neighbor kid at the plate (playing baseball) "good eye!"... "oops, I meant good eyes". LIGHTEN UP!! - Steve-- P.S.- I came to this forum with a changed attitude about fishing. I now am ready to "give it up" concerning "guide's secrets" to help any novices learn this great recreation. How about we talk fishing now? --------- Hohwaiian- Thanks for your 3/4/00 comeback. I now think U are caring rather than oversensative; & have more likenesses than differences w/ me. Yay for the value of communication! Tight lines, Steve


[This message has been edited by Backbouncer1 (edited 03-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Backbouncer1 (edited 03-04-2000).]

Bob, in my view, you're addressing two different issues. The argument over the sports teams' mascots is the use of a racist name. For example we'll never see any team call themselves the "Niggers" or "Wetbacks."

The other issue is forming puns with another language, which perpetuates negative stereotypes. An example from my culture is the ever popular "I GOT LEI'D IN HAWAI'I." Many Hawaiians think this portrays Polynesian women as being promiscuous. The same applies with B-1's original post, which may imply to some that Indians are drunks and their women are also promiscuous.

As I mentioned earlier the latter can be both humorous or insulting, it just depends on who you're talking to.

P.S. Seems like I'm the only one carrying the torch on this one. Am I being overly sensitive?

Sorry Steve. I don't mean to scare you away from this BB. I found your post on cures to be quite interesting. And the discussion on this topic has been far from heated (See IronFisherman's last month). I wasn't trying to roast you a second time with this latest post, I was just differentiating between racial names and racial puns. It seems though that this time maybe I'm being too sensitive, for that I apologize.

Peace Out...

Howiian Yuo were not the only one to notice a possible insensitibity in the post. I had hoped we could get some more posts of the different river names and thier origin and what the name means. I did see the humor and did chuckle about. On the other hand it is not fun to have your name turned into some trite phrase that steals from its true meaning. Fishing is fun.. enjoy it... if you are not enjoying it maybe it is not for you. I for one would like to hear from those that know what the names of some of our mean or where it comes from. I can think of some fun to be had from knowing these things. Like I hit em hard on that hard to pole river or we slayed them up at stinky stinky.

Some things can be changed.(dams) Work hard to change them. Some things can not be change.(Nets) Learn to live with them peacfully. Try real hard to tell the difference.

Now where in the heck did a name like duckabush really come from. ( Already heard your version BB and mighten that be a bit difficult while playing a 20lb.stealhead.)

Just a thought.

Actually some don't even think the indians were here first, they have found Japanese boats that are older than any other indian artifact. On the Washington Coast.

I just say don't allow any more netting.

tight lines

Backboumcer, i'd rather be called a nigger than be called a drunken INDIAN because Indians never sat around getting drunk all day. Steel 69, THE U.S. government will owe the Treaty Tribes until they give the land back to the original owners or until the wind don't blow and the grass don't grow and the water don't flow. And SPIG I ain't whining, i'm just taking what is mine for the land my ancestors gave up, so they wouldn't be killed like so many other innocent wonen and children. As for BIG BOB, not many white americans would like to be called "HONKEYS, WHITE DRUNKS, OR HOQUATS. BEING CALLED A ANGEL IS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN BEING CALLED A DRUNK INDIAN. As for the names of the rivers and streams, we just had our own names for these places and if you think there funny the more power to you. I just don't like you thinking all "NATIVE AMERICANS" are drunks and didn't have anything else to do with there time. They could have walked across the river on the back of the fish and went and killed a elk or a deer for dinner. THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY'S AND AMUSEMENT.

First off a question for Bob, can we get gutpiles kicked off this thing? Second, most stero-types are based on some sort of fact. It is a fact that alcoholism, and poverty are more common problems for those people with Indian ancestory. Not everyone has thease problems and each person should be judged on their own merits.

Dear Mr. Gutpiles: Did you read all of my followup replys (appology for lack of sensativity, explainations, & attempt for mutual understanding)? My original obvious humor post mentioned the word whiskey only as a setup for a harmless JOKE. Most likely because some of my friends & I occassionally drink a little "JD" during social gatherings. The ONLY person on this entire thread that made any significant reference to "drunken Indian" was you! The ONLY person to use racial slurs in a derogatory manner was you; as if to suggest it's a bad thing to be a nigger, & worse to be a drunken Indian. Do you see a pattern here? And if the U.S. Gov. were to give the land back to the orignal occupants, (whether that be ancestors of nomadic Siberian Eskimos from just after the Iceage, or nomadic Japanese, or an Indian tribe your people took the land from), will you be better off?? I have a strong hunch you will have tunnel vision to see & hear things as you want to rather than how they really are. If not, please go back & reread my posts with an open mind toward better understanding. Then we can talk about something we have in common- the love & care for fishing. - Steve (Bob: is it time to end this thread?)

[This message has been edited by Backbouncer1 (edited 03-05-2000).]

Gutpiles should be able to express his opinion here and to suggest he be banned is pathetic. Can't you stand to hear an opinion you don't agree with? Is this site only for those of the same line of thinking? I go along with banning name calling and profanity,but not expressing an idea or rebutal of an argument.

While I certainly encourage meaningful discussions and opinions on issues, actions such as blatent name calling, use of offensive language, and use of the BB soley to promote one's business or to be disruptive will not be tolerated now, or in the future. If users cannot live by the the above rules, then please find another forum.

Corrective action has, and will be taken. My apologies to any of those offended by the negative downturn in this discussion.