a sign that government has crossed a boundary line?

They literally regulate everything that goes into our bodies. Water, air, food, beer, cigarrettes, etc. We are a nation of laws.

Do you vote?

The e cig movement is a true "game changer".

I got one and easily haven't smoked a cig in months. When Im around smokers now they smell horrid. I feel waaaaaay healthier and I forget my e cig and don't trip out as I have lessened my nic intake over time.

I never would have thought quitting could be this easy.

This "game changer" has a lot of big businesses freaked the [Bleeeeep!] out. The government, big pharm., and tobacco companies have never cared about your health at all.

Do you think big pharma wants to put tobacco companies out of business? Hell no!

Do you think the government wants to put tobacco out of business? Hell no!

All three of these entities are juggernauts marching in synch and they are scared as hell of the e cig movement.

There are going to be a lot of smoke and mirrors about this in the coming years. So far I trust the Penn State doctor who studies health effects of smoking tobacco and knows what he is talking about and how to research these things. He says he believes e cigs are 95% less harmful than tobacco cigs (!!!!) maybe significantly less harmful than that. At least an order of magnitude less harmful. He said this with little large scale studies conducted, put his rep on the line, and is well known. I trust that. He simply wants people to quite killing themselves by smoking tobacco and doesn't represent a vested interest unlike so many others out there trying to scare people away from e cigs.

Way cheaper too. My uses costs less than 10$ a month and the unit paid for itself in a less than a month in money saved.

I remember hearing that the "second hand vapors" are no better than second hand smoke, but who knows if that's true or not.

Either way...smoking is a pretty disgusting, unhealthy, and expensive habit that I participated in for far too long and I am sure happy to have left it behind!

Fish on...

Todd

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/314...-to-your-health

"E-cigarettes, the seemingly innocent alternative to the real thing, may not be that harmless after all, the Food and Drug Administration said as it issued an advisory identifying the "volatile" substances in the device and its emitted smoke.

"Electronic cigarettes are not emission-free. E-cigarettes contain volatile organic substances, including propylene glycol, flavors and nicotine, and are emitted as mist or aerosol into indoor air," it said in FDA Advisory No. 2013-015 dated June 26, which was posted on the FDA website Thursday night.

"If several people are using e-cigarettes in a room at the same time, considerable indoor air pollution will accumulate and may result to harmful second-hand exposure," it added."

Clearly not as bad as smoke, I'd say, but far from sunshine and puppy dogs, too...probably.

Looks to be a pretty decent compendium of sources with some information, useful or not, here:

http://no-smoke.org/learnmore.php?id=645

I have plenty of fishing buddies who smoke, and I can say this, at least...they stink, they cough a lot, and it's pretty nasty having their smoke blowing in my face all day when we're in the boat or in the rig...I've fished with two guys who use the e-cigs and they are ten thousand percent more comfortable to be around compared to the cigarette smokers.

Fish on...

Todd

""If several people are using e-cigarettes in a room at the same time, considerable indoor air pollution will accumulate and may result to harmful second-hand exposure," it added."

The same can be said about broccoli and the methane it produces later.

in 50 years the debate will still rage on... only then it will be E-doobs

Piper...E-Doobs are already here and have been for sometime. In fact, they were here LONG before nicotine e-cigs. My e-cig can smoke both...its doesn't care if its liquid nicotine or THC. Kids across the country are getting busted for smoking dope in class because there is very little smell (if any) compared to traditional methods.

Beezy hit the nail on the head first. Follow the money and in this case, that leads to big tobacco.

My e-cig ONLY contains nicotine, veggie glycol and natural spearmint extract. Cigs contain over 3,500 known chemicals and over 500 cause cancer.

Additionally,
Cost for smokes = $300 - $400 / month
Cost for e-Cig = $40 / month
+ I feel 100% better (no cough, smell, lungs have opened up, more energy)

I've traded up and most everyone I know already has or is planning to in the near future and that's exactly why "THEY" are starting to freak out. Follow the money...

Hank, just because the tobacco companies have invested in e cigs and are releasing competitive products does not mean they don't hate them and wish them regulated away.

I personally think the tobacco companies are just trying to make money and get in on the market because they are in the business of making money, it has nothing to with them deeply wishing e cigs did not exist.

It is clear to me that tobacco companies are the biggest losers in the long run if e cigs become more and more the alternative to cigarettes.

Yeah no [Bleeeeep!] is right. You are the one arguing that tobacco companies aren't members of the anti e ciggarette agenda.

For clarity, there are two types of e-cigs. Disposable pieces of junk like Blu or Njoy (Tobacco company e-cigs) that retail for $7-10 each (about 2 packs of smokes worth).

The others are the refillable / rechargeable kind that can run anywhere from $25 - $250 depending on the make and model. These are serious pieces of hardware & technology - more cell phone than cig. The "juices" or refillable nicotine blends are made by hundreds of different companies - many of which have cult like followings.

With that being said, Tobacco companies have a major uphill battle to compete in the refillable market. I don't readily see RJ Reynolds making great hardware in China and being competitive. That's just my $0.02.

The only way they make it is if the FDA steps in and regulates the hell out of the independent juice makers and / or nicotine sources. I could very well see that happening...because again...follow the money.

Some Blu's are one time use and as a whole Blu's are junk. With the "refillable" Blu model, the "cartridges" are pre-loaded with juice (a few mg's each). The 5 pack for $12 is equal to 10 packs of real smokes or $100 dollars in Seattle. Assume 1 pack per day per person usage on the average. Rough math, that equals Tobacco companies losing $88 every ten days per person that switches over.

My 2.0 oz. $20 bottle of juice lasts me 3 weeks. That's $280 - 300 of lost revenue in 3 weeks! Its also a better deal than the Blu, albeit I had a much higher upfront expense in buying my vape.

I have no doubt that Big Pharma is also involved. Chantix costs BIG bucks. But that's for people trying to quit. Most smokers are not in the process of quitting at any one given moment in time - so that leaves most people still smoking. The losses are biggest for Big Tobacco. Billions and billions are at risk, whereas Chantix is probably 0.05% of the total revenue for Pfizer.

We haven't even touched on the subject of the "paranoid masses" which are also contributing to the issue.

Also - I'll add this point. State sales tax on smokes is outrageous. Like $1-2 a pack. Juice is taxed at regular sales tax rates. It's like a damn trifecta of assholes....Big Tobacco, Pharma & Government all ganging up together over a common cause! Throw in the namby pamby public for good measure and us vapeheads are DOOMED!

E-Cig 101

OK Hank - you win buddy. All three of the bad actors are rat bastards and I'm sure we can agree on that. We are both arguing about some form or another of the "man" just being the "man" and doing what the "man" does.

Anyway, I'm extremely glad I switched over and I've talked to some buddies about switching over (you know you who are you swollen pussies). I highly recommend it for anyone looking to comfortably quit real cigs. I've tried many methods and this one's legit.

At the very least, I don't stink like cigs around the ladies and I save $300+ a month. Yea me!

You guys have stated that smoking cigarettes costs $300-$400 a month, while e-cigs cost about $40 (or some other much lower amount). Hank asked the question of why big tobacco is investing in e-cigs if they want them gone. Here's the scenario I see playing out:

1. Big tobacco invests in e-cig technology to make some profit of the more readily available crap brands they put in every convenience store.

2. The FDA, under heavy pressure from big pharma and big tobacco, declares e-cigs unsafe, and they are removed from the market.

3. Big tobacco is once again the only player, so they raise the price of cigarettes again. The government, in turn, raises taxes on cigarettes again, and big pharma starts taking in the profits on Chantix, etc. Everyone is happy (except smokers and the people who hate their second hand smoke, which pretty much includes everybody NOT profiting).

Pretty simple: if your market is suffering due to a cheaper, cleaner alternative, what do you, as big tobacco, do? You get into the competing market, to make whatever profit you can while hiding your true agenda, then you go back to selling only the product that makes you 90% more profit when the competing product is suddenly and shockingly identified as a leading cause of cancer.

...at least that's my conspiracy theory.

I never minded cigarette smoke much in my bar-hopping years either, but having been away from that scene for a while, it bothers me more now; not to the point where I feel like I ought to try and outlaw it or anything.

I don't find smoking females attractive. I don't have the wallet to support that habit!

As for the whiny cu.nt part, I guess you've got me pegged there.

It's over $30 per carton, so slightly over $3 per pack.