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#886330 - 02/20/14 08:27 PM Ukraine
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
Looks like another proxy war brewing. Lots of oil and gas pipelines from Russia pass through the country enroute to the rest of Europe. Putin will school weak [Bleeeeep!] Obama . Obama drew a line yesterday on the issue the line was drawn with erase able ink. Obama and Biden would remove any conditions to negotiations for gay rights in Russia.
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#886332 - 02/20/14 08:56 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Us and Them]
blackmouth Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 2572
Loc: right place/wrong time
Sad.
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#886360 - 02/20/14 09:30 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Us and Them]
Jet Offline
Parr

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 72
Really sad. Our country could be in for the same. At least we can defend ourselves for a few minutes!

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#886361 - 02/20/14 09:31 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: blackmouth]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7204
Loc: Snohomish, WA
It's WAY worse than most imagine. They are using live 7.62x39mm now. frown



More

and more

last one
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#886369 - 02/20/14 09:46 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: NickD90]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Compelling images.
Those snipers remind me of those coward Serbs that sniped old ladies trying to gather firewood and water in Sarajevo.

The Ukrainians I've met make sure that you know they're Ukrainians and not Russians.
This has been brewing for a long time.
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#886376 - 02/20/14 10:04 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Direct-Drive]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7204
Loc: Snohomish, WA


This picture is stunningly sad.

He is carrying a shield back to wounded protestors to shield himself and other priests while giving last rights. There are reports of snipers shooting medics as they attempt to help the wounded - at least one young female medic was shot in the throat.

It's worth noting that prior to the uprising, it was 6 guns for every 100 civilians. Just sayin'.
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“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#886382 - 02/20/14 10:18 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: ]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7204
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Unarmed and moving forward as a team into DIRECT fire.

This is what the BALLS OF FREEDOM look like. This is what we used to look like. Would we see the same in today's America or is the apathy too deeply rooted?

I hope the EU takes em' and gives the middle finger to Putin. New word from Moscow is that the "hammer" has been ordered to be dropped.

This could get really, REALLY bad.

Good thing we have a strong wristed "president" in the Oval Office to lend a helping hand. Red line (Iran)...over stepping the line (Kiev)...blah blah blah.


Edited by NickD90 (02/20/14 10:28 PM)
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#886397 - 02/20/14 11:26 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: NickD90]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3091
Loc: Bothell, Wa
Something about Putin is scary so I'm pretty sure he'll [Bleeeeep!] this up somehow. Throw in the EU, CIA, NSA and whatever other acronym and we just might see an epic fuckup.

Which is really too bad as the whole thing could most likely be averted with a new Gov and a crackdown against corruption. But that would put the folks above out of business so the Ukrains are [Bleeeeep!].

The good news is that Obama is so despised and has lost so much credibility with that part of the world that we get to sit this one out.
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"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#886398 - 02/20/14 11:28 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: BroodBuster]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7204
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Originally Posted By: BroodBuster
The good news is that Obama is so despised and has lost so much credibility with that part of the world that we get to sit this one out.


Truth.

We ain't touchin' this with a ten foot pole.
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“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#886405 - 02/21/14 12:18 AM Re: Ukraine [Re: NickD90]
Brewer Offline
2112

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4898
Loc: in the mass production zone
Obama is still waiting to see this this on the news.
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#886436 - 02/21/14 11:26 AM Re: Ukraine [Re: ]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
The long held notion that a military or police force will not fire on citizens protesting is pretty much been proven to be a load. I hear it all the time in the gun debate.
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#886440 - 02/21/14 11:50 AM Re: Ukraine [Re: Us and Them]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
Originally Posted By: Tom Joad
The long held notion that a military or police force will not fire on citizens protesting is pretty much been proven to be a load. I hear it all the time in the gun debate.


Kent State?
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#886450 - 02/21/14 01:23 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Dogfish]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13467
Wouldn't be surprised if Putin is staging tanks near the border. The creepy thing about this is that it is playing out almost to the script in Tom Clancy's last novel. Ya' don't suppose Putin and Ukraine Prez read the translated version to formulate their game plan?

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#886465 - 02/21/14 02:30 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Salmo g.]
NickD90 Offline
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 7204
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Glad they reached a "deal". Not sure how much of "deal" it really is, but at least people aren't losing their heads for the time being (figuratively and literally).
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#886470 - 02/21/14 02:47 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: NickD90]
Dogfish Offline
Poodle Smolt

Registered: 05/03/01
Posts: 10878
Loc: McCleary, WA
Very sad. Again, Russia is showing it's thuggish influence. Not saying the US hasn't had issues in our meddling in other country's affairs.

Putin needs to go. He will only continue the heavy handed manner of leadership. Not saying we need to remove him. The people of Russia need to do that.
_________________________
"Give me the anger, fish! Give me the anger!"

They call me POODLE SMOLT!

The Discover Pass is brought to you by your friends at the CCA.

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#886488 - 02/21/14 04:54 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: ]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
Putin is the richest man in the world from what he continues to plunder from his own people. He also wants to restart the soviet empire. He sees Obama as a weak Teat and will push on evey possible opening while the first black Resident is in the whitehouse.


Edited by Tom Joad (02/21/14 04:56 PM)
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#886531 - 02/21/14 08:18 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Dogfish]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: Dogfish

Putin needs to go. He will only continue the heavy handed manner of leadership. Not saying we need to remove him. The people of Russia need to do that.

Many Russians like tough-guy Putin.
60% for/40% against.
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#886547 - 02/21/14 11:47 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Direct-Drive]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle
The Russians have an advantage right now, a 50 year advantage. They know that their govt is corrupt and that their media is its tool. We are just starting to suspect that ours is and most have no clue. The one thing we had going for is that we tried to always do the right thing by others. We can no longer claim that.
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#886598 - 02/23/14 02:06 AM Re: Ukraine [Re: Us and Them]
Us and Them Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/20/10
Posts: 1263
Loc: Seattle

Interesting view



L Todd Wood



Listening to the media gleefully hype the numerous construction flaws and rumors of corruption at the Sochi Olympics, I couldn't help thinking that Americans in general have no clue about Russia. Since I spend a lot of time in Moscow, I thought I would point out some of the similarities and differences.

So let's talk about corruption. Yes, Russia has systemic governmental corruption from the local to the national level; politicians up and down the line have their hand in the pie. Yes, there were billions stolen in Sochi. This corruption pushes up the cost of everything in Russia and prevents her economy from modernizing. That is why Russia was recently voted 92nd in ease of doing business by the World Bank.

However, these billions don't come close to the $800+ billion that was wasted by the economic stimulus the Obama administration enacted in 2009. Most of the money went to pay back supporters and lined public service union pockets--attempting to head off the rightsizing of state governments that will eventually have to take place. What about the auto bailouts where again billions were paid to unions and bond holders were left holding the bag, preventing the rationalization of labor costs that would have taken place in a normal bankruptcy process? How about the Federal government using the IRS and other government agencies to target the opposition? And come on, does anyone believe the case against Dinesh D'Souza was brought as a result of a normal FBI review? What about the $600+ million that was spent on the website for the Affordable Care Act? There is a strong case to be made that corruption in the United States siphons more money out of our economy than in Russia. Luckily the American economy has been resilient enough to overcome this hurdle.

Yes, Putin and other officials have palatial dachas in the countryside. But I wonder if they were more expensive than all of the global vacations the Obama's have taken? And yes, Putin has stifled the free press in Russia; in America, the corrupt press does the bidding of the Democratic Party. Which is worse?

Moving on to infrastructure, Russia has serious infrastructure deficiencies, especially outside the major cities. However, if you ever want to see a true, massive work of art, ride the Moscow metro. Every station is a gleaming architectural masterpiece with marble, statues, mosaics, and chandeliers. And, it's clean and well maintained and safe. All one has to do is ride the New York subway once to see the difference. Talk about third world! The tiling is falling off, escalators often don't work, riders are accosted by the homeless and panhandlers, the elevators stink of urine, etc. And I have to agree with Joe Biden, LaGuardia is a third world disgrace. JFK and Newark are second world. I wish Americans could see Sheremetyevo Airport in Moscow, then they would understand. It's a gleaming metropolis of modernity with a very nice Aeroexpress train to the capital city.

Let's take a look at culture. In Russia, most people speak several languages. Education is valued. Kids are loaded down with work every night in mathematics, literature, the sciences, history, etc. The Russian historical appreciation of the arts is well documented. And I'm not talking about a canvas smeared with feces, I'm talking about ballet, classical music, and theater. I heard recently a young girl tell her mother in Moscow, "Mom, there was a girl in my class today who hadn't heard of Vivaldi. Can you imagine not knowing Vivaldi?" I think that question speaks for itself. Just ask your child who Vivaldi was. In contrast, the American education system is collapsing under a union driven agenda of dumbing down our children and the promotion of socialist values. It was recently reported that one fourth of Americans don't know the Earth revolves around the Sun, case closed.

And speaking of airports, one notices another thing getting off the plane in America. We are fat. We are not sturdy, or strong, or plus -sized. We are fat. There is no obesity epidemic in Russia. People spend time cooking with things like fresh vegetables and enjoy the taste of things rather than filling themselves to the gills with processed carbohydrates and sugars.

And last but not least, yes there is organized crime in Russia. It's a problem. Like any country, there are places that are not safe. But what you don't see are gangs of teenagers looking to knock out someone of a different race. Instead of looking for who is committing crime in America, the administration looks to remove the consequences of one's actions by making it illegal for employers to conduct background checks and campaigns for felons to be able to vote (to garner more Democratic votes). I haven't even brought up our refusal to enforce immigration law.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a patriot. I served my country. I'm proud of her history and what she used to represent. But I'm not proud of what's going on today. I don't recognize America. She is sinking into a moral and cultural black hole of corruption. Russia is regaining her rightful, historical place in the world that was sidetracked by the communist revolution. America is spending her days thinking of ways to pick your pocket--we'll cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you.

Russia is rising. Maybe we can give her a high five on our way down. Instead of criticizing others, look in the mirror America.

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#886612 - 02/23/14 12:34 PM Re: Ukraine [Re: Us and Them]
Direct-Drive Offline
ExtenZe Field Tester

Registered: 11/10/09
Posts: 7960
Loc: Vancouver, WA
L Todd Wood needs to renounce his citizenship and relocate to Moscow at his earliest convenience.

Godspeed to the Ukrainian people.
Hopefully the Czar of Russia will not counterattack them.
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