Two questions for the Board. Noticed on another thread that B Mac went 27(landed)-for-41 (hookups), or a .660 'batting average' this past winter. Looking over my journals I've kept over the past few years I've crept up from the 0.400's (which is obviously below standard) to the 0.600's but can't seem to stay pinned to 75% of the fish (my goal over the course of the season). I was wondering how everyone else does. I also realize that the type of water, size of fish, tackle and techniques used are going to affect the percentages but I read in STS and other mags that some guy went 17-for-19 over a weekend and I think "Dag! I should be doin' that too!" (Then I go out in the saltwater and lose 5 in row and start talking to myself.)

2. Also, thinking about C & R mortality and the way of keeping it down perhaps a more lenient definition of 'caught' is needed. It's a bit ironic that these native fish most of us release are sometimes subjected to extra trauma because somebody needs a photo or he and his buddies have agreed that it isn't caught till it's on the bank/ in the boat.

I mean some fly fishermen count a fish as caught once its belly touches gravel! I think this is a LITTLE lenient as most 10lb steelhead I've hooked turn and run as far as they can the first 4-5 times their bellies touch the bottom. One guide I know grabs his client's line and either breaks or cuts off the leader boatside (leaving a hook and yarn in a baitloop plus 3-6" of line in the fish), and then reties. Says it's easier on the fish (though he doesn't insist his clients use barbless hooks), his boat (no thrashing) and himself (no hooks or teeth in fingers) to leave these beauties in the water. I'm tempted to start following this guide's example and count fish as caught once the leader's been touched/ grabbed. Anyone have any thoughts?

Snagly, never figured out batting averages for catches, nice thought though. May have to try to figure that one out. When guiding for salmon both here and Alaska many clients make wagers on first, most and biggest fish for the day. Rule in my boat is once the guide touches the leader its a counted fish. Cuts out any arguments and kinda makes it fun when clients are screaming at you to reach out and touch the leader, especially when its about 10 feet away. As far as biggest fish for the day, I'm the ref. Definately dont like to net fish to be released or beach them. I'll undoe them by the boat or wade out to my waste on the beach to release them. Once I've touched the leader its counted.

I agree here. If I touch the leader or unhook the fish, it has been caught. If it gets away before that time, The fish won!!
As far as averages, with bait I go about 80%, with lures about 50%

Howdy Snagly,
Like in baseball, as long as your hitting your weight, keep on playing. If not, there's always golf. As far as when you can consider a Steelhead caught, if you C&R. It's the point where you could point it's head to shore and max pressure the bouncing beauty on the rock's. For good release, of course you find the softest spot to subdue the fish. You know the fish will run the first time it feel's gravel. The second time in I use a technique which end's a pointless struggle amongst the rock's, sticks ect. Like when you first connect, I'll lift up in order to keep the fishes head above water. (as much as my line will take) The result for me, is a confused fish basically out of breath. Wet your hand's before grabbing the mouth & penduncle(skinny before the tail) at the same time. Home Run ! (remember it's not cool to dig the cup up when you birdy)

When C&Ring the fish is 'caught' when hand touches tail in my book.

As far as percentages, I'm about 80 percent under a float and barely 50 percent drifting. Sure is nice to get the fish in the top jaw under a float. Had a fantastic "batting average" this year because I landed just 4 fish drifting and a large bunch under a float. This is the first 'low water' winter we've had in a while--lots more float water.

As far as C&R goes if I could have netted the fish it was as good as dead, I try not take to many fish out of the water unless its worthy of a picture. As far as hits ans miss's go If I can vissually see the weight of a fish(a plug that doesnt stick) or if I can feel a fish this would be considered a fish on and lost.

This year I went 32 for 50 70%plug 30%bait all on one river.

the IGFA say's that if you touch the leader it counts as a landed fish.

FISH ON!!!

Batting averag... Thats a hard one. There have been times when Ive lost a dozen or so fish in a row, Then I can trn around and go 10 for 10. Whats up with that?
As for a caught fish. Any fish that can be netted is considered a landed fish in my mind. I never take a net while m banking it, I loose more fish from the bank then i do from the boat. For instance last summer I hooked a large steelhead I guessed he was between 15 to 17 lbs. Iwas using a Loomis 1141 with a 6lb leader. The fish ran downstream to a shallow flat. I couldnt beach him because everytime I got him close to the bank he would touch the rocks and and turn and run back to the center of the river. I wasnt going to keep him, I pointed the rod at him and broke him off. To me that was landed fish.
The real question is what is a hooked fish? A hook set aned a hea shake, is that a hooked fish? Not with me. I have to get a run out of a fish to consider it hooked. What do you all consider a hokked fish?
You all have a great day!!!!
Paul

I would have to say a hooked fish is any that are on for at least a good head shake. Like a couple of seconds. As for landed, I would go with the leader touch. Unless I'm bringing one home. Then landed is on the grill!

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Just because I look big, dumb, and ugly, doesn't mean I am. It means I can stomp you for calling me it!

When I first started steelhead fishing my partner and I would plug (more correctly, the fellow rowing the boat would manipulate the plugs, and we would watch the rods). We'd trade off takedowns so we didn't end up with the inside rod person getting all the action in certain stretches. It was hotly debated what constituted a 'fish on'. For our purposes, when plugging it's a fish on when the angler picks up the rod, sets the hook and there's weight on the rod -- even for a second. When drift fishing we count it as hook-up if the rod loads up for 3 seconds or more -- enough time for a second hookset if you're so inclined.

I think there's a lot to be said for not playing a to-be-released fish till it's belly up if you can throw it some slack and let it slip a barbless hook, or even break it off if it's lip hooked.

Perhaps by the same token it isn't 'right' to count as caught a fish that does something stupid (like beaching itself after a wild jump), but of course we do! I remember being up to my armpits in mid-river being pushed into the unseen hole behind me of unknown depth with a 14lb buck on the line. The fish had been fought at close quarters for 5 minutes and was still green. He had gotten below me into the sweepers streamside and waded quickly down below him to hoik him out. The fish came down with the current and under pressure I brought him cross-ways out towards me. Through some miracle I managed to tail this guy at which point he writhed a couple of times, wrapping the line around my rod (which was almost in the water and lying flat). I was now virtually hugging this fish and the rod, and figured I was in a bad, bad way. I leaned over and bit the leader right next to the fish's mouth and dropped him back in the river . . . right before I went for a swim. Now that was a fish that should have got away, but didn't, and it certainly made my day.

Snagly,

Interesting questions. I fish a lot of C&R waters anymore, and I always release wild steelhead by choice. So I end up using barbless hooks most of the time. I'm not sure if that affects my landing percentage, but it might. Over the years when I've kept track of it, it seems like I land about 50% of the steelhead I hook.

As for when is a fish caught, that is interesting, not so much because of all the C&R fishing we do nowadays, but interesting because of what it takes to satisfy various anglers' needs. I don't make fishing bets with buddies about first fish or most fish, so I don't need a mutual or consensus definition for a caught fish. I subscribe to the notion that fishing is about me and my experience, sometimes between me and the fish, and I refuse to make it a contest with other anglers. I've done enough fishing and caught enough fish that I don't need nor want anyone else to validate my fishing experience. So my definition of "caught" is sort of loose and inconsistent. Caught means I could have caught or landed it if I had choosen to do so. For example, sometimes after playing a fish out, I slack line it hoping the barbless hook will come free (those are the ones that usually won't) so I can avoid further stressing the fish with handling and unhooking. Some of those fish might have come free and never been actually landed or caught, but what matter? Occasionally I've been able to roll a fish onto its side and slide it into the shallow water, slide my hand down the leader and back the hook out without hardly touching the fish before it turns and swims away. But if you'd asked me if I'd caught a fish that day, I would report that I had. I think the important thing is not getting too "caught" up in what others think about your fishing results. Validate your own fishing experience. Did you have a good day fishing, or not?

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo g, you sound exactly like my best buddy and fishing partner Slick. (In fact you may BE Slick for all I know -- but you're not, because you're far too knowledgeable about NW salmonids to be living in Jackson Hole, WY.) Of course, you are right to write what you do. Believe me, in the last few years I've become a lot less competitive in fishing and more appreciative of the whole experience, and less concerned with body counts. I no longer bet on fishing unless it's something silly like the biggest Halibut or some other dumb luck wager. I no longer berate myself and consider it a bad day if Slick whomps me (which he does about 75% of the time). I'm focusing more on how I'm 'playing the golf course' (hence the question on conversion percentages or 'batting averages'), and enjoying fishing much more as a result. I've also been fortunate to fish in places with lots of fish with good guides, so I have also slaked my blood lust a little, too.

But despite the Prozac and general mellowing, I'm still competitive at heart -- even if the competition is with myself these days. I remember last year getting severely annoyed at a guide who grabbed the leader on near-spent chromer as it surged out of the shallows one last time. POP! That ruined my batting average for the day, and I was steamed.

PS I hope you don't share a particularly human trait with Slick. He professes to be completely anti-competitive, yet he is constantly (sneakily) changing his tackle or approach in some fashion to as to get or maintain an edge. If I see fish rolling in the tailout, I'll yell out. Slick might not say a word, shuffle downstream past me, and then slam one on the first cast. Once he's on he'll then say "Come on down here. I saw a couple of fish rolling." Or he'll change flies from a #4 to a #6 and not say a peep even after he's hooked a couple.

Here's hoping your fishing buddies do better by your hand!