as you can tell i am from northern california and mainly fish the mad, klamath and smith rivers. for about the past ten or so years a new of type of fishing, if you can call it, that has gotten very popular. i was wondering if it is as popular in oregon and washington yet. the technique is called "lining". a 10-15 foot leader is used with a small corkie or bead. a regular sliding slinkie or lead system is used for weight. it has to be fished in moving water. basically once the cast is made the leader spreads out to full length and if a fish is in its path the line slides through his mouth. the wieght continues to pull the hook until it is up the fish and the hook is set. this system is used in muddy water and locations fish are lock jawed and stacked up. last year the mouth of the klamath river was closed for the last 200 yards to ocean due to extreme lining. this year there is a gear restriction that eliminates the ability to line fish. my question has this problem made it north yet. i have seen lining on the kenai river in alaska for reds. anyways have you seen it, and what do you think of it. it is a very hot topic down here. some people consider it an acceptable way to catch fish.

I think it's wrong because it doesn't give the fish any chance to reject the bait. It's basically snagging.

I think that is simply a more advanced technique of snagging and is wrong.

I see it here in Oregon, Just go to Wiley Creek on the South Santiam.

Oh please.........Lining is not "snagging". Lets face it, if anyone of you have ever fished a river full of large amounts of salmon, chances are, all of us have lined fish before. It comes down to the facts of what you do with the fish after you land them. Anything hooked in the head is legal, and anywhere else is considered to have been snagged. Don't get me wrong here, I don't intentially snag fish. I think the lining technique is fine if you are fishing in an area where the numbers aren't depressed. If you are obviously doing this techinique on dwindling numbers than I think it's wrong. Go to Alaska or the Satsop when the fish are abundant, lets face the facts, in these conditions all of us have lined fish. Even steelhead when they are schooled up.

The statewide general definition for snagging: Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook(s)in its mouth. (Page 13 2000/2001 fishing rules Washington)

Sounds to me like lining is a more subtle way to snag. I agree that we all may have done it at one time or another, but that doesn't make it something different than snagging.

ok folks;

someone tell me when they are out chumming, that every chum salmon just comes up and gobbles the corking or yarn or bait?

yeah give me a break. i fish on kennedey creek and talk about a close in fishery. we have 25-30 feet of creek across at the wide sopt and everything else is alot less. you can see the fish rub on your line.

elmtree (woody)


[This message has been edited by elmtree (edited 06-17-2000).]

elmtree,

Sounds to me like they're snagging in Caluifornia, and they're snagging at Kenndedy creek, too. You can call it whatever you like, but it's still snagging.

I've been to Kennedy creek many times and it's usually a snag fest. You can go there and fair-hook the majority of fish by not setting the hook every time you feel one swim through your line, or you can hook a stupid amount of fish by setting on every bump. It's not that hard to tell the difference between a line rub and an actual bite at Kennedy, but some guys are just there for a limit (why some guys keep those dark-ass calico fish is beyond me). Make no mistake though, if guys used the same hooking techniques with a warden standing there, there'd be some tickets written.


I'm not saying that I have a serious problem with a guy who keeps a chum hooked in the head, but some guys take it to a whole new level. Setting the hook 3 or 4 times per cast in an obvious snagging attempt, and keeping anything landed. Now that's crap. But with the lack of enforcement at Kennedy, or anywhere else for that matter, what else can be expected?


Fish on......

Anybody who tries to get an offering inside a fish's mouth by any other means than coaxing the fish into striking is a coward and not a real fisherman. If the pussy's (sorry ladies!) of the world would learn what fishing is really about we'd all be better off. But, then........nature dictates that we have an ample supply of jackasses to keep the pot stirred up.

LOL!! Well put Eric!!

This is kinda tough for me to make a call on as lining is THE way to catch reds ... period, guys can argue all they want about "the fly", but it's all in the technique and it's lining! Now, on the other hand, this has become the in method for catching kings on the Kasilof River terminal area (again, guys say they're biting, but they're not) and I'm not quite so sure about it. I guess if fishing for reds that aren't going to bite, yea, but if fishing for a specie that will readily bite if properly presented, then I have my doubts ... and quite frankly, concerns for my saftey undoing fish in the upper end of my drift near the terminal area that have been lined somewhere other than the mouth.

My .02.......Isn't this called "sport" fishing. If there is no sport in netting, then I don't see the sport in this. I can only go by your descriptions as I have never fished this way, but it sounds as if it is only a bit short of netting. I don't condone keeping any fish that will not be eaten immediately and thus return 99% of fish caught. I also don't condone any type of fishing method that does not give the fish every opportunity to escape. If that fish is the difference between eating and going hungry, I don't care how you get it in your hands. If you are really "SPORTFISHING", then I'm sorry but the tie goes to the runner or in this case the fish.

Lining is snagging.....Plain and simple. It is just a term used to describe a "legal" snag. The laws need to be changed to reflect this tactic as a violation.

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

Howdy,
Ethics in ones life are what defines character and true worth. Although many people would question mine for even taking part in a blood sport.(I C&R almost exclusively, but gill's can get damaged) The truth is everyone has their own rule's that they develop to fit their needs. What's lower than a Humpie poacher? A Chum poacher. Jeez how lame!

Concerning Red fishing, if fish get too crammed into a stretch, getting one to bite before a foul-hooking occurs gets tough. I've never gotten to Alaska,(yet) but I've heard guys say they had to fish crappy water just to avoid the thick schools, so the fish can at least see the lure coming. I can catch river Sockeye that some say won't aggressively take. I just fish a nickle or copper 5/8oz. Pot-o-Gold spoon in the same manner as I would normally. Now the trick, remove the hook and replace it with a 0/3 egg hook, red in color. Just a mini river version of the trolling tech. which revolutionized sport Sockeye fishing in the two Wa. lakes. I get a kick reading older how-to articles on Lk. Wa. Sockeye with creative ways to get a Krill eater to grab a U-20.

dan s.
i do not not jerk at ever brush by, nor do my partners. but still we foul hook a lot of fish. i even plunk at the bridge. put my pole in my rod holder and wait till it goes off.
yeah i have seen alot of snagging at kennedy. last year this russian was there with this tape wrapped broken rod and a big old reel that could not cast, 50 pound line, was using heavy spoons with trebles. he was not very good, lost 2 fish all day, even when he went to a double double corkie salmon leader set up, 2 double hook salmon leaders with 2 corkies, 1 long and 1 short and enough lead to sink the bismark, ker splash.

so do not hold yourself so high and mighty, i do the most i can to hook and i only keep a couple of fish a season out of kennedy. c&r here and forever.

elmtreee (woody)

If using a relatively long leader with a hook and bead is snagging, what's the bead for? (Serious question.)

elmtree,

I'm not riding a high horse here, but if you see it that way, then maybe your conscience isn't entirely clear.

Of course you foul-hook fish at Kennedy.....it can't be helped at times. But you can also minimize the numbers you snag by not setting on the line bumps.

Fish on......

Does a novice know the difference between a line hit and an real take?:rolleyes PLEASE)

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Tight Lines!!

Can a novice tell if a fish is fair or foul hooked? (Roll eyes) I guess if you're releasing foul-hooked fish, and not intentionally snagging, I have no problems. But when the snagging is intentional and the fish is kept, then that's a little different.


Fish on.....

Lining sockeye in alaska is the standard and I don't think thats the end of the world when there is a gazillion fish in the rivers up there. Washington state is a different story altogether. What it all boils down to, at least here in Washington, is the tremendous lack of enforcement. We could substantially reduce snagging, lining, and illegally retained fish if we had more wardens. Simple, huh? Poaching will always be a problem when people can get away with it and no matter how much enforcement there is, there will always be some kind of violation present. Tyeeterror said "there is a gear restriction in effecet which eliminates the ability to line fish". I understand that lining is done with "long" leaders. I can't even see casting a 10-15 foot leader without a rod that's about 20 feet long. Why not make the regulations require leaders of less than four feet? You still might be able to line fish with a four footer but probably not as easily as you could with a much longer one. So? You'll have to stop using those long and light leaders for summer runs and other low water fish. Sure, that's not fair to legitimate anglers, like myself, thank you, but the dishonest few always ruin it for the rest of us. There are many rivers that require leader lengths of no less than somewhere in the 12 inch range to reduce snagging and if long leaders do it too, then ban them. These are just my thoughts as part of the new generation of steelheaders. My forementioned views are directed at Washington's problem and could be applied to other states but I haven't been there to witness it even though I'm sure it exists. Remember to thank the our politicians for the WDFW's meager budget and severe lack of enforcement.

Life is short...fish hard!!!