I have been using Berkley Big Game 15lb. for king salmon from the bank on the Feather River in California. I broke a rod and broke the line at a blood knot. When the fish are snagged they are doubly difficult to bring in (and release). I'm told that Berkley Big Game at 15lb. is more like 20lb. Is Big Game at 15lb. sufficient? What about casting properties of stronger line?

15lb maxima is hard to beat .. best line there is , just my .02 cents .

I second Maxima, Ultra Green 20#

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B

im using 15# ande since switching from 17# berkley xt, its pretty tuff stuff, compared to berkley, and alot cheaper too.. ***schitzo***

MAXIMA!!!!!!without a doubt...15# is strong enough

[This message has been edited by Timber man (edited 08-08-2000).]

I'm gearing up to wrestle with swamp monsters in Northern Australia, so I'm re-spooling reels and breaking knots on scales. I can't directly answer the question, but let me give you my opinion on brand and ask a handful of questions that may help you out. If in doubt, I fish lighter than the person next to me, religiously check that the knots are re-tied frequently, and change line very often (maybe 3x in a one week fishing trip: extreme, but line is cheap relative to everything else so why take chances?).

BRAND: Fresh Maxima (not the one or two year old stuff that's on sale over the Internet!) breaks 10-15% above it's rated strength. (Much of this is due to Maxima having a 10-15% bigger volume than similarly rated lines: it's just thicker.) But in general, I'm a big Maxima UG fan when I use mono. I haven't used the new, cheaper Crystal Ivory but Chameleon is great leader material and works well in warm weather as main line (less so in the cold).

LINE TEST: Here are a few issues to consider when deciding how heavy to go:

1. How much drag are you really putting on your reel? Much less than you think! Unless you use pliers on star drags (which I've done but it's hard on the reel gears), there's no way you're going to be able to put more than 5-7lbs of drag on a Calcutta 250 or something similar. Tie some line to a hand scale, crank the drag as tight as it will go, tell your wife to hang on to the reel and watch the scale. Amazingly little. And few of us fish locked-up drags in any but rare circumstances anyway. So why fish 20lb line when you're never going to put more than 5-7lbs of strain on it?!

2. Is your line so heavy that it'd break your rod if you DID manage to put a heavy load on it? I've not been bold enough to do this, but if you load 15lb line on a salmon rod rated "10-20 lbs", tighten the drag with pliers, and then try to put 15lbs of pull through the rod I think you may end up with splinters. (You could run the same experiment by tying weights to the line, tie the line off at the handle and use the rod to lift them. This saves wear and tear on your reel.)

I'd be very interested to read what other reader's experiences have been. Any weight lifters out there?

3. The heavier the line you use, the less you fit on the reel, the less far you can cast and, most importantly, the greater the amount of drag in the water. Drag = unnatural drift = harder to fool fish.

I've recently come to the conclusion that most of the time, fish don't know/ don't care what line is. But fish are keenly aware of unnatural movements of the bait/ lure relative to current speed. Switching to lighter leaders results in more hook-ups because of more natural drifts, not less-visible lines (certain trout situations, bonefish on the flats and other special circumstances excepted).

All of the above argues in favor of light line. There are two counter arguments:

4. Heavier line is a real advantage when fishing in snaggy water. That extra thickness helps resist/ survive abrasion.

5. Heavier line also helps catch more fish by absorbing sudden shocks -- generally at hookset, sometimes in mid-fight. (Here Maxima excels, esp. versus at least some of the co-polymers such as Excalibur Silverthread that test and look very good but fail under real-life fishing conditions.)

hey snagly, have you ever used izorline and how did it perform, thanks ***schitzo***

Nice research Snagly,whats it like being being a globe trotting fisherman,How do apply for this job
My.02 here is ,I've used most of the quality lines out there for years I fished Maxima and still do for leaders trilene was my choice also I'd switch between thew XT in ligher weights *8-10 and then XL in 12 -14#they worked fine,I since switched to Ande and love it I fish 8 to 10 for summerruns and coho when the kings show I switch to 12lb and fish this weight all winter ,if I head to the coast I might go with 14 but thats the max ,too heavy a line I beleive really affects the presentation and movement of the bait or riggin.
I see alot of guys fishing barbed wire lookin stuff for Salmon 18 - 20 lb stuff ,I hook way more fish then these guys ,and I very seldom break off a fish because of line failuar It's usually because I did something stupid

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft }<<(('>----<'))>>{
Release all Wild Fish

Snagly, thanx for responding. Anybody making a life in Singapore ...(that's something). Been to the American lately? Anyway, I need to be more precise: I had hooked into a king salmon with a new Fenwick HMX 8 1/2' graphite rod rated at 10-20lbs. The line was 15lb. Big Game from Berkley. The reel was a Penn 525 mag (which casts that line nicely). I had tightened down the drag. I didn't want the fish to run too far. I'm too old to chase; I'm on the bank. The line broke at the blood knot on the leader, which was also 15lb. Big Game. I must have already damaged the rod and didn't know it, because it broke like a dry twig on the next snag--no pun intended. Jim

A few quickies in response to questions/ comments:

1. Haven't fished Izorline but understand it's an excellent copolymer line. Renny Mason (inventor of the Aerofly/ Aeropuff and ace fisherman) used to swear by it when he guided in Alaska.

To repeat what others have mentioned in the past, DO NOT join copolymer to mono using a bloodknot. Too hard to get a smooth, non-friction damaged knot (maybe 3 tries for each success).

2. In general I'm off the copolymers in favor of old fashioned mono. In Alaska this past spring I had pre-loaded my reels with Excalibur Silverthread 10 and 12lb. In all my tests in Singapore (including fishing) it had been the equal or superior to Maxima: knot strength, thin diameter, rated abrasion resistance, softness. The problem was that it didn't fish as well as Maxima. The line broke too often, sometimes at knots but more often somewhere in the first 30 feet. This only has to happen a couple of times before you lose confidence in a line.

By the second day I was running 100% Maxima UG 10lb on my flyreels (chuck and duck, Hawk style) and baitcaster. Unfortunately, about 70% of my pre-tied leaders were Excalibur so I didn't want to use them. I fished the week with 8lb Chameleon leaders and managed to land some big fish (pushing 20lbs) without a single leader failure. A lot of that was simply luck, but now you know why I'm such a big fan of Maxima.

3. Idono, definitely sounds like a bad rod over and beyond (perhaps) a bad bloodknot. The only way to figure out what knots to tie are to used hand scales and something like a pair of pliers or a screwdriver. While cumbersome, you tie a double uniknot (100% but bulky) to the scale and the plier handle. You then cut the line in the middle and tie the best darned bloodknot/ back-to-back uniknot/ double or triple Surgeon's knot you can. Then break about 5 of these in succession, recording the results.

Some people claim better than 90% with a triple Surgeon's. I get about 85% but it's bulkier than the others and if I need a 100% mono-to-mono (or copolymer to copolymer) join I'll tie back-to-back double uniknots. The bloodknot's strength varies by how many wraps you take and the amount of spit on the knot when you tighten it. Six wraps is usually a good place to start (more is not necessarily better). I get 80% out of a bloodknot and about the same from a back-to-back single uniknot. (The uniknot takes longer to tie so I use it less frequently.)

When joining lighter main line to the leader, I usually double over the lighter line and use 6 wraps to 4-5 for the leader. Again, you must use the same type of line for the best knot strength.

4. Haven't been to the American or Feather this year. Had a date booked in June for Kings but my brother had problems at work so we went to Tahoe instead and sank some ales. Maybe this fall.

5. My wife's a Singaporean and she likes it here. I think it's probably easier to live in Singapore and fly around a fair bit, than to live in Forks and have an earache every time I walked through the door. At least that's my theory!

Personally, what do I run??

All Maxima, with the following tests / colors:

WA fall salmon - 25 lb. fibreglow with 20 to 25 lb. ultragreen (UG) leader bloodknotted in.

WA springers - usually 15 lb. UG with leaders near this unless very clear and then down to as low as 8 lb.

Kasilof River 1st run kings - 25 lb. fibreglow with 40 lb. chameleon leader when running eggs (straight to plug with fibreglow)

Kasilof River 2nd run kings - 40 lb. fibreglow with 50-60 lb. clear leader.

Advice? Usually 15-20 lb. Maxima will get you by in most WA fishing situations.

The original post stated that the angler was fishing from the bank. I assume this means he is casting to the fish. While I have no doubt based on the testamony of all of you that replyed that maxima is the best line to put out behind your boat. I put on the waders and cast to the fish with spinning gear. I found that Maxima line has terrible memory and comes off the spool in coils. The colder the weather the worse the problem seems to be. I use fireline and triline. The triline has to be changed frequently or it will cost you fish. My 02 cents.
My naval carrer requires leaving the state of Washington for the Eastcoast the beginning of November. I am glad I'll get to fish another salmon run before I return! I enjoyed my time here in Washington State and readining all the good information on this BB. I truly hope the fisherman are able to unite as a force to improve the fishery in Washington. There is much work to be done, Good luck!
Paul

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I use either Maxima Green 20# test or Izorline 20# test!

The Izorline, in my opinion is a bit more bulky when tying knots and such, but it holds up really well! That's what I fished with for Kings last year (in the salt)and did awesome! (no break-offs after hook ups AT ALL!!!)

I have a friend that will ONLY use Izorline...and some that will only use Maxima Green, soooo...I guess you'd be safe with either, huh!!!

I have Maxima Green 20# test on my reels right now, so go figure!

ALSO...on the rivers...a lot of friends us the Maxima PINK line for visability, and I'm gonna use it this year on the rivers too!!! I was told that many guides use the PINK so they can see where the casts are going with their clients, to better help them with their technique!

Good luck on the water!

L

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"Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds!" Albert Einstein

I live in Ont and we use light lines for our salmon fishing. My rig is a 13 ft sage, Islander float reel, 8lb trilene xt mainline and 5lb fluro leader. I have landed chinooks to 30lb on this gear. I float fish skein which not many guys here do but chinooks love it. Here rivers I fish are fairly snag free so once fish is hooked you can let him run as much as he wants. Also area I fish is generally slow staging water so no problems fighting the current. I would love to try my lightline fishing out west but maybe problems as your fish are bigger and stronger. When water is clear and fish are spooky using the light gear makes a massive difference so if any of you guys need tips shoot away....

Here is a tip, fish 15lb. and reef his butt in. I fish 12 too. One time on the Duc last year I was fishing one of my favorite low water holes. (Bob you know where I'm talking about, I see you there every year when its puma low.) I dont mind a hike through the jungle if the boat cant take me down. I lost a couple that could have gone low to mid 40's. It hurts to fight em' tell your arms are dead & he is almost in and bink!!!! Every time I fish light for nates or nookies it comes back and bites me in the ass. Thats why guides dont screw around, you never know when that fish of a lifetime comes.

hey Idono,
I've also been fishing the feather at the outlet the past couple of weekends,on this past friday I hooked 9 and didn't land any,only broke off one because it was snagged and got down in the swift water,so i broke it off,all others threw the hook,and on saturday I hooked 3 kings and 1 steelhead,and only landed one of the kings,i just can't seem to keep them hooked,by the way I have been using maxima ultragreen in 12# but i'm going to move up to 15# this weekend.

FISH ON!!!

I have only been fishing for a couple of years but I have yet to break off a fish in the rivers with 15lb Spider wire. I even use 10lb with great success. But since Maxima seems to be the line of choice on this site, I will have to give it a try.

Bob
I see you use a higher test leader for your alaska fishing. Is this to reduce leader wear from all the fish? Or so you don't have to retie after every fish? Just wondering
Tight Lines

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

Curt: I fish "below" you (downstream), kind of just around the "corner", after the split in the river. I could not do the "tub". Too many people. I think when I get my Scanoe, I'll do the tub next year. But then I'll be with the boats. I'll try some of Bob's (The Really Big One) techniques with spinners out there in the middle of the fray.

Sounds like I'm in the minority here: I swear by 12lb - Maxima Ultragreen. 2 important points. I use the Palomar knot, and 2) a direct-drive reel (no drag) - Shimano Bantam 1000. I can tie the Palomar in the dark and I tested it at one of those sportsmen shows with another fellow using the bloodknot. Palomar won hands down. On Ultragreen it breaks about 3-5 # above stated weight test. Been using 12# for over 10 years. This year it hauled in a 54 and 45.5#(my wife's) up in the Queen Charlottes. It's was a blast! You do worry some when playing the fish...but that's the thing about fishing - you have to test yourself in all things. I'm sure Bob, The Really Big One uses heavier because he's guiding and often with less experienced guests using his equipment. 12lb is all you need (I use 6-8 in Puget Sound.