While I am not sure how I would feel about a Moslem president, I do find it interesting in how the Democrats are responding. -A man should be judged on what he stands for not his religion or the color of his skin-. Which leads me to ask, is religion a label or something you actually believe? Democrajavascript: void(0)ts seem to be saying that they believe religion has nothing to do with what you stand for, how you live your life and make decisions, or actually have any influence in who you are. My guess is that most of us would rather have a Christian, Buddhist or Moslem over a person who claims to be a witch or devil worshipper or follower of Charles Manson.

I think religion should play exactly zero part in the administration of our government, from the lowest local office to the President, and I am really dismayed that this country is turning into exactly what was the cause of it becoming a country in the first place...religious nuts trying to control the rest of us.

Fish on...

Todd

I have no problem with a President having a religion. I have no problems if they have deeply held personal beliefs based on that or any other reason. But, when they take the oath of office they pledge to support and defend the Constitution and lead the whole country. Not just those of the same religion, those who voted for them, or and other slice of the nation.

As Todd says, though, far too many see the world in Black and White, my way or the highway, you're with me or agin' me. What the vast majority of politicians fail to grasp is that they represent the district/state/country that elected them and not just the donors who bought them.

Probably pretty naive thought.

We already have one, time for a Christian.

Got actual proof of that claim or does it just fit the narrative?

Can a Muslim be the president? Yes. A-6 verbatim:

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Oath: "I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter".

Should a Muslim (or any other religion for that matter) be president?
Not if their faith overrules the supreme law of the land. See: Islamic Sharia "Taqiya" and "Kafir". Our country, our rules. Don't like it? GTFO.

I highly advise that if you care about this sort of thing to watch these two videos:

UK

Germany

What you applies equally to followers of any religion. We had the debate with Kennedy as to whether or not he would be dictated to by the Pope. Same comes, as we saw with Davis/marriage license issues that some strands of Christianity collide with the Constitution.

If following the dictates of your religion/belief system collide with the law/Constitution then you should not run for office until you get the law changed.

+1 Agreed. I had typed the JFK example in my first response, but cut it out for brevity.



Not sure if any of this is definitive proof, but it is straight from their own mouths. With my understanding of Taqiyya and Kitman, I've since learned that if it "looks like a duck...."

#1

#2

And where did that narrative start?

#3

From this very morning's MSNBC show...

#4

Also, see the many passages in his own book "The Audacity of Hope". Here's a tasty one I'm sure you heard before..."I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction".

That being said, being a Muslim does not preclude one from being the President as long as they are not practicing Taqiyya (thereby breaking the Oath of Office).

BTW - I lived in Dearborn MI and have many life long Muslim friends, so before anyone accuses me of being a xenophobic racist, I'm only reporting what has been told to me in confidence and behind closed doors by those not practicing Taqiyya. My Muslim friends also believe he's a Muslim for what that's worth.

PS - BTW - I could give a rats arse if he's Muslim or not. Just do your job for all Americans and don't unsurp the Constitution for any religious reasons regardless of whatever religion that may be.

And that will not change as long as corporations are people and money is free speech.

PPS - BTW. My problem with Obama isn't that he may or may not be a Muslim. It's that he doesn't defend ALL Americans equally as a requirement of his Oath. He jumps into Social issues prematurely without having all of the evidence thereby stoking internal race wars (among unsurping parts of the Constitution - another subject all together).

See the Beer Summit, Trayvon, BLM and Ahmed "The Bomb Clock Boy" as examples. Where was he for Kate Steinle? Or the pop tart kid or the dinosaur gun kid or the American flag kid? A white kid shoots up a church and all hell breaks loose. A black guy just did the same thing and....crickets.

Defend the innocent regardless of color or political narrative. DO YOUR JOB. He may or may not be a closet Muslim, but IMO - the dude is a flat out racist. Not that we haven't had any racist Presidents...we most certainly have. Maybe its the white man's comeuppance, but its still ugly and has no part in modern society if we hope to be that shining light on the hill and move past the racial divide.

A President's "faith" has absolutely no bearing on what laws get passed during his/her administration. Once in office, every elected official worships the Almighty Dollar and nothing else. So you see, it's not Allah we have to fear. It's "Dollah."

Here's a question more appropriate to modern America: Would more Americans be up in arms over the President openly being Muslim or Christian?

Flea - personally, I would change your first line to read "should not have any bearing", but other than that, I agree with you. Trump has his current legs because he is only candidate that cannot be readily bought. The Right see this and likes it...a lot. You would think the Left would be all over that considering their hatred for Citizens United. News Break: the Right hates it too!

Right now in today's media driven PC political environment, I'd say Christian. Even thought most in this country ID as Christian. The overt PC pendulum has swung and that's why the Right at the moment has the "silent majority". The Dems are going to lose this cycle in the same way the Repubs lost it after Bush. The "last guy sucked and did nothing for the country or for me". Moderates and Blacks are going Repub this go around. Clinton is toast. O'Malley is a non factor. The Berns is too extreme and only speaks to hard core leftists. Biden is the wild card, but I think Moderates and Blacks have been burned too many times in the last 7 years to endorse an Obama policy 3rd term. This is why the Dems are pushing for Amnesty. They know they've lost Moderate and Black vote which put O in office twice.

I'm still waiting for a Dem debate to hear their positions. The Dems threw the baby out with the bath water by pushing aside everyone except Hillary. That decision will haunt them next cycle. Being an Indy Moderate, I voted Obama his first term and elected not to vote the last cycle. I could not abide by either Obama or Mitt and I refused to cast a vote for the lesser of two evils. That being said, I'll probably go Rebub this go around due to the reasons listed above. Maybe. Or I may not vote again this cycle. It depends on the Repub. I had really high hopes for Carson, but the guy for as smart as he is supposed to be, just doesn't get it.

FML. Shoot me now....

There might be some wishful thinking in there, but I'm pretty adept at this sort of thing for an armchair QB. I could be completely wrong too, but I ain't afraid to stick it out there!

What we need are the Dem debates. The reason the Dem numbers are so high at the moment is for lack of debates and this is 100% by plan. Once the platform is out and debated, especially Amnesty - there goes a good portion of Black vote or at least enough to swing the winning % from 2012. The Dems haven't done a thing for the Black vote in 7 years. O isn't running this go around, so it doesn't really matter what the Black vote thinks of him right now. Other than Carson & Biden, there are no Black candidates in this next cycle.

Trump is gonna Trump. I know lots of Moderates that are interested specifically because he cannot be bought and is a beltway outsider. LOTS. If it gets to s Trump and Hillary debate (which I think it will), Trump is going to put her head on a Pike. Too much baggage with the Hills. The top 3 things in the polls concerning Hill. Liar, Dishonest, Untrustworthy. She isn't going to win.

Biden is the wild card and he will run. Its no secret that there is no love lost between O & the Clintons. Methinks O has even more up his sleeve than letting VJ go after Hill with emails. Watch.

Carly isn't getting anywhere near the Presidency. Too much of a Hawk AND she's a CIA insider. She's been on the inside for a long time, she's just trying to portray herself as an outsider. Plus that face!

Yep CIA. HP sold millions in PC's and HW to Iran using a shell corp. to get around the sanctions.

"What Mrs Fiorina lacks in formal experience, she makes up with a business tenure and relationships with worldwide contacts during her time at HP. After her departure, former CIA Director Michael Hayden selected Mrs Fiorina to chair the CIA's External Advisory Board. In 2007, she warned Mr Hayden that his spy agency would need to adapt to the public’s expectations of transparency".

source: UK

She's an insider. All tech giants are. It comes with the territory post 9/11.

No - I'm not sure of that. I'm not in the CIA that I know of.....

Nick, you'd do well on the Sunday morning shows.

When you typed that thought I would think that you would realize that the truth of your statement hinges on the definitions of administration, and of religion. So I did a Google search of religion and this is what came up as a definition for religion.

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that aim to explain the meaning of life, the origin of life, or the Universe."

And when I searched administration I got this,
ad·min·is·tra·tion
noun
noun: administration; noun: admin.; plural noun: administrations

1.
the process or activity of running a business, organization, etc.
"the day-to-day administration of the company"

If you meant what you said in your post that I have quoted, then how can you support the founding of our nation, and how can you support the Obama administration?

I proceed to your next thought,"I am really dismayed" that this country is turning into exactly what was the cause of it becoming a country in the first place"----- One must only must read your posts for a short time to realize that you are often dismayed.

Your closing thought was, " religious nuts trying to control the rest of us"

Now Is this not that an excellent example of the pot calling the kettle black?
Our just who is trying to control who?

Ya Sure, ya Betcha.

I learned how to use different colors to sort thoughts so that people that possessed skills not in the mainstream might be able to comprehend thoughts expressed differently than they were used to.


Perhaps you can do it better.

Todd.
while you may say you don't want religion in politics, I bet you would never vote for a fundamentalist of any religion over an atheist. You laugh at creationists, because you have a belief of what that means in terms of their critical thinking. It is laughable for me to hear people say religion has no part in Politics when it is such a central force in who people are.

The reason, at least for me, why fundamentalists of at least some religions-and this probably covers Christians and Muslims both, is that the proposals which they make for governing are not ones I support. So, am I not supporting them because of their religion or how they propose to govern? And, because I won't vote for a fundamentalist is that because I dislike their religion or their politics?

Please read the definition of Religion.

+1 quadrillion. Thank you.

For me, o.k. I can take a tin foil hat joke. But I'm trying to do my own homework on all candidates to make my own informed decision. This is how smart adults operate, specifically us Engineers. That decision can go either way because its about the message and facts (ie data), not the party. I don't want to waste my vote (even though I know it doesn't really matter - E.C. and all). I wish the MSM would help us in this regard, but they are in pockets just like the politicians they cover. Its so sad that I have to go the BBC for semi-unbiased coverage amiright? The MSM has forced some of us to do our own homework. Sad.

Edit: this is a really good thread. We all don't have to agree and that's OK. We need this discourse as a country, as it makes us who we are. Freedom of thought et al. Regardless of our political affiliations and ID, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that everything is NOT going swimingly at the moment. Lets stop pointing fingers and fix it eh?

And yes, I would be very, very good at Sunday morning if it weren't for this damned hairline. And maybe my face. Its not for everyone. Think Krauthammer but with pretty eyes.

The real question for this thread should be along the lines of "Should ANY fundamentalist be President?"

Many folks in the US loudly oppose Sharia Law but want their interpretation of Biblical Law and somehow think the justifications are different.

An interesting historical fact is that the three major monotheistic religions grew out of each other. Judaism to Christianity followed by Islam; all having the same "founders". Of course, each of the three "majors" has a bewildering set of different groups that all use the same base texts. And yet, each group sees that they have the one true interpretation.

or a bald atheist president.

I think I should be president.

I was but now just own a bunch of hotels across the country.

That's a bulls.it analogy. Intellectually dishonest.

It wasn't babtists or Jehovas witnesses or Mormons that declared jihad on American lives

What is a moslem?

Well, it was Christians that tried to exterminate Muslims, Mormons massacred non-Mormon folk. Christians did a number on all sorts of savages in the New World. Hate seems to know no religious boundaries.

Swing and a miss

Moslem is the original and accurate spelling. Muslim is a newer, western variation. My Muslim friends prefer Moslem and that's why I say Muslim. It gets under their skin a bit, but what are friends for? Some dudes take it way too seriously (for real). I don't recommend teasing in this way while in the M.E. and standing next to dudes with large knives.

Nice shoes! Are you gonna go for it? You woke up the whole hotel dad.

I was hoping someone would make that link.....

I really don't care which sky fairy you belive in, nor do I give twoshits when two sky fairy believers believe in two different sky fairies...they are all the same sky fairy to me.

What I do care about is if you think your sky fairy gives you special dispensation to be an asshole, or if your sky fairy gives you justification to be a racist, a bigot, or to kill other sky fairy believers who happen to believe in a different sky fairy then you.

I also care that if you are in a position of authority outside of your church you should check your sky fairy beliefs at the door and do your fuckin job, which is defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

If you can't do that due to your sky fairy beliefs, then you should never get the job...or, move to a country like Iran where that is a job requirement, not a job impediment.

Fish on...

Todd

What is a Sky Fairy?

Agreed. However........A liberals "sky fairy" is government and do all the exact same things your railing against

The Pope is a real person, dumbfuck.

Spokesman Frank is the spokesman on the DS for idiocy and delusional hypocrisy

this a ignorant term for spirits such as angels. seems there are dimwits who believe they don't exist.

The difference with the Pope is that I agree with him because he is right, and not a hypocrite, not because he is Catholic, or because he is the Pope.

Hank, every time I think you are just being a partisan hack shitferbrains who doesn't actually believe the schit that drools out of your mouth you go and say dumbfuk schit like the above...and convince me that it's just simple stupidity running thru your empty head.

Congrats...again. Sometimes you really do give Sol Dunce a run for the Crown.

Fish on...

Todd

I agree that you are fullofshit.

Your only debate "technique" is ad hominem attacks. Those are confusing words, and not in 'Merican, so you probably don't understand them.

Roughly translated into 'Merican for you they mean...

"Hank makes schit up, and argues against that instead because he is simpleminded, and a partisan jackwagon. He long ago gave up arguing anything credible, or on the merits, because he has got absolutely nothing."

Fish on...

Todd

How did I get dragged into this?

Toff never claimed to be smarter than everyone - but he's sure as fu.ck smarter than you, Hamster.

Deal.

Or kill yourself.



Whichever.

Dark side.

No holds barred.

Senior moment. :>)

You certainly can't deny he flaps his gums more than anyone else. [/quote]

Wrong again.
Top posters:
Hankster = 26,561
Todd = 22,660

1st post in 8 years, cya in 2023.

If words in posts were the measure, Todd's total would be over the total of all of the other Top-10 posters combined.

There's a whole lotta excess blahblahblah in what he says. He's got the gums that keep on flappin'.[/quote]
I just cracked the top ten....just passed the good Doc. What do I win?

I just cracked the top ten....just passed the good Doc. What do I win?

Son of a biiaaatch.... We are just getting into Seahawks season and the Ducster is on pace to pass SG and maybe reach Mr. Goodluck by the time we play the fightin' Hanksters.....

How's that going so far?

Been biting my tongue for years, but I guess I can only take so much stupidity. I use to count on Sol to point it out. Miss that.

I see, you had to bring your A game with Sol.

Wow Chuck, you have me all figured out after 2 posts. You on the other hand have displayed your stupidity for all to see for years. Congrats?

Yeah - and Hamster has been here since 2007 while Toff has been here since 1999.

There is no comparison between whose facehole is running all the time. Besides that, Toff is always doling out his harvest of tuna, salmon, and even Chicago Italian beef samiches, while all Hamster doles out is mouth diarrahea.

So stfu, Hamster, you gum-flapping motherfucker.

I AM smart enough, you dumb motherfucker.

You aren't.

So fu.ck off.

I know you wouldn't - that's because you're a greedy cocksucker and Toff is a good and generous friend.

So, let me reiterate - fu.ck off.

Our current prez. is pretty close to being a Muslim and gas prices have dropped, home values increased, and business in our region is off the charts. I don't give him much credit for any of it but at least he hasn't taken my guns away.

You beg for blowjobs from trannies, Hamster.

I beg for some Albie loins.

That's the difference between the two of us you old queer.

You're doing great, Hank...keep it up.

Fish on...

Todd

Tood some times it seems that you don't know what you believe in, however it's easy to see what you want to believe in. It's too bad that you can't seem to reconcile the two.

blackmouth, I know exactly what I believe in...if you are looking for clues to it thru Hank's diarrhea of the keyboard then you will not find anything resembling reality.

Fish on...

Todd

You two should get a boat.....................A Charter Boat......

Really?...No love for the late George Carlin. Bedwetters, all of ya.

Right on steel. Can't believe he left us. Thinking we need someone to carry the torch.

Christopher Hitchens had a few good arguments against Muslims. In all fairness, he didn't suffer religious zealots of any religion. He wasn't perfect by any means but he definitely puts regular news hacks to shame. Miss him too.