How stupid do you have to be to work for the Fish Dept? After all the positive out look for a record run of Chinooks for the Green River, now they say they do not have enough for the hatchery so they close the local piers for the fishermen. If you owned a business and thought you were going to have a great year with sales you would not spend all your hard earnings because you think you will have all this extra income, rather save and see what the outcome will be. Well the WSDF&G believes the opposit. They thought how we were going to have this great run so they open up the Elliot bay for boats and the Indians to net, now to say they are worried they will not get enough for the spawning. If I was operating a business the director would have been fired on the spot for pure stupidity. So what if we have a surplus, let the stock grow and so each year these fish will return in number so we can gradually have a sport season. But no, the Indians netted over 6500 fish and the boats had another 900 on opening day, now the local people who fish the pier are paying for it. Thet do not catch as much as the guys on the boats and definitly not as much as the Indians with their wall of death. i think it really is time for us to get a new leader in the WSDF&G! One who can manage and say no to the Indians, No netting in front of the locks, rivers and any where else our salmon and steelhead will thrieve. I say learn to count you idiots in management at WSDF&G. Do not penalize the little guy for the stupid mistakes of the Department.:MAD: !

A tough part of fisheries management to be sure ... however, the state has a long record of the "kill 'em first, count 'em later" mentality. Given this record, it is time to see this come to an end ... why not start conservative with fishing harvest and adjust from there?? Keeping count of in-river escapement can be done with a decent degree of accuracy: it is the manner in which all the streams in the area I fish in AK are managed. NO reason it can't work there too. Fish first!

Baaaaaa!! Baaaaaa!!

Aerofly I agree with you about needing a director who is willing to "just say no" to the Natives and sport/commercial fishermen if there is even a question about the size of a run..I have no problem not fishing if we are all in the same shoes.. Now my ***** towards the WDFW. It never ceases to amaze me when one of our "educated" bios. make decisions based off of expectations rather then real numbers. I see the same sort of thing on the hunting side all the time. They'll give out tags based on some numbers that aren't even close(I could give lots of examples).Good clean common sense could go along ways in managing our fish and wildlife. Yet these people in power will choose to use "models" to determine when and how much we are going to hunt and fish. My experience with the dept. has usually left me with the feeling that my ideas will not work because my degree is not in the field of wildlife management. Personally I think they are just a bunch of bookworm puppets that have no real idea what is actually going on out there in the real world!!!!

August 18, 2000

Elliott Bay fishing piers closed

Action: Elliott Bay fishing piers closed to salmon sport fishing through August 31

Effective date: August 18, 2000

Species affected: Chinook and coho salmon

Location: The portion of Catch Record Card Area 10 east of a line from West Point to Alki Point (Elliott Bay area at Seattle), including the Elliott Bay Pier
and the Seacrest Pier.

Reason for action: In-season management information indicates the Green River chinook run is at, or below, pre-season expectations and few fresh
returning fish appear to be moving into the bay. The number of natural chinook remaining in the bay are needed for spawning.

Other information: State and tribal biologists conferred on Wednesday and agreed the Green River chinook run is at, or below pre-season forecast of
abundance, and all remaining natural chinook in this run are needed for spawning. No further fishing directed at Green River chinook will be allowed. The
salmon angling closure for waters east of a line from West Point to Alki Point will continue in effect through August 31, and will also apply to the Elliott Bay
Public Fishing Pier and the Seacrest Pier, two locations that normally are open year-round for salmon fishing. Coho fishing is expected to resume in these
waters effective September 1.

Information contact: Pat Pattillo (360) 902-2705, or **** Geist (360) 902-2733


[This message has been edited by Aerofly (edited 08-19-2000).]

I think the department releases these reports to raise licence sales. And they really don't now what they have. If they had a clue they would stop bowing to the tribal counsel. The tribe isn't to blame here I'll say that outright, the piss poor management is.. But it the same breath the department is pressured to commit numbers for public and tribal harvest. Why can't they split the season up evenly? Waiting for accurate counts are the key. If this can't be done than NO SEASON. We're not all going to be happy with the outcome but at least its fair. Another thing (while I'm on my soap box preaching) not really to do with this topic. I think if a tribe owning a casino has the right to take 50% of our funding for themselves, than they owe us 50% of their profits from casino revenue. Being fair is the real issue. I know some tribes have restoration projects and help with funding. I want my moneys worth, I'm sure you do aswell. Asking for money than stomping our guts is getting old. J.C.B

I think most of you are all wet. The department only uses a small of amount of info from their projections on fish run size and if they feel the run is going to be to small and say no to fishing, then the tribes say our data says we have more than enough fish to allow a an opening. The state always says,to the tribes your right and we where wrong, so you can fish. Then they let them always fish during the peak of the run for their first fishery and kill the run. Good even split for the sportsman 900 versus 6500, that sounds like almost 50/50. The hell with the fish, kill them all, Oh! I cant say that, I don't have a feather stuck in my butt. We need to sue the state over our rights, if we have any left. Think about last year with no season in Elliott Bay, due to 500 to few fish, but the Indians got to net the run even though the run size was to small to reach escapement, when will this end. FISH FIRST!!

Anybody know if the WDFG, or the police, attempted to ticket or arrest these dangerous criminals at the fishing piers this weekend??

No, they didn't even show up! They must really care about those green river fish.

Maybe they can reimburse some of the money for the guys who are at the piers who don't get a chance to fish any where else. Compensate for thier loss of fishing for the 2 weeks , but I think the state would be too cheap for that or let them play slots for free at the casinos. Well I wrote my reps and the WSDF&G game and let them know how disgusted with them I was. Back to the river I go for the next 2 weeks. I will go to seacrest on monday at 7:00 pm to voice my part and support the fishermen at the pier. Hope others can make it out and express their anger and saddness over the WSDF&G management and to bring up the issue of unfair "injun" netting.

Monday at 7:00 PM sounds good to me. I have never been to a fishing pier, and it's about time I meet some of you. I am going to call WDFW on Monday morning, and ask if they will send a represenative out to explain this action to everyone. I'm also going to contact King TV and ask for some coverage,[Suzzanna Frame, I hope!} Maybe someone else could take it upon themselves to contact the muckleshoot gambling, tobacco, and fishing corp., and ask them to show up.