Everyone,
Chris posted a post entitled Indian Land, and I read all the replys and I can't help but want to throw this out to the crowd. As of right now we pay for all of the hatchery fish that get planted into our streams and rivers, and the natives get 50%, correct? Ok well why not us as a whole run the Fish and game out of business and let the indians take over, by now most of you have crapped your pants right? Well hear me out. Let the natives come up with the money to pay for these hatchery fish and yet we will still be able to fish for them, lets quit spending all of your money on fish that we only get 50% of. If the natives truly want fish to harvest then they would continue the plants. The Quinalt nation always has fasinated me, they really know what they are doing up there! Look at the numbers of fish coming back, yes we have have to pay to fish this river, but this is only because it is on the lower river and it is on their land. You tell me where on the Wynoochee there is a reservation, yet the natives can net the summer steelies. Just a thought. But I am ready to take a stand, and I know RT is game for it, he is always ready for an adventure!

Andy Matthews

Andy I don't think your first assumption is correct. Did we pay for these hatchery fish?

-Upper Quinalt clipped winter-runs
-Queets/Salmon river brats
-Tulalip Bubble
-The Green (sore subject already)!!!

These are just some of the opportunities that I utilize year after year. I'm positive there are other tribally-enhanced fisheries that us sportfishers benefit from here in WA State.

As far as the Nooch goes, I can understand your frustration because it's in your backyard. But try reading the Gov Stevens treaties. I'm pretty sure the Chehalis is a usual and accustomed fishing ground for the Quinalts.

I read your scenario and am not sure of the point that you're trying to make or what your "stand" is.

Hi Andy. I haven't communicated with you lately, so I hope the tackle biz is going well. - I will take your comment about me as a compliment. Thanks. A couple things though. If you have been reading some of my more serious posts lately, regarding the unfair NMFS fish allocations favoring the Indians, you know that I am taking an ongoing stand; wherever I think it will do some good. I am still digging after the real truth behind the Fed. fish follies, but it's NOT easy to get the answers. Also, as you experienced yourself, I tried to get sportfishers to take a stand on allocation issues via a rally; with a poor response. And ya, I'm usually up for viable adventures. But like Ho', I don't quite understand what your suggested stand is or would do. Maybe it could use a little more clarification, and perhaps viability. Take care Andy. And keep caring and trying to improve fishermen's lot. Thanks. - RT - Edit: BTW, On Sun., coming back from a weekend fishing both the Hoh R. and out of Sekiu, I crossed the lower 'Nooch in very dim evening light. I came back over it (Hwy.12 bridge) and took the first road north in attempt to see the river and some launches. I had no map. As I sit here looking at an Atlas map right now, it appears that to access the river I'd have to take a road up from just east of Aberdeen which crosses the 'Nooch a few miles north and then follows it on up to the little town of Grisdale. This map doesn't show the little roads though. No point to this, other than I'm one of those kind of fishermen that if I could have found the river easily I would have gotten out and casted a spinner in it, in near darkness. Someday I will try it a little earlier in the day! - Steve

[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 08-24-2000).]

I like it, Andy....

Even if you could gain massive support for this, there are legal issues to a cessation of all state-run hatchery production. A lot of these hatchery fish are not provided out of the goodness of the states hearts, but are mitigation for dams, public utilities, irrigation needs, and development projects.

A lot of these fish are required as compensation for projects that eliminated or reduced runs.

Andy - Your idea is a bit far-fetched but you've hit on the major negotiating tool for the States on the Columbia River harvest discussions. That is, if the States are zeroed out of the allocation because of ESA (or whatever), why should they continue to produce Chinook at the State run hatcheries and elsewhere? If State-licensed anglers can't catch Chinooks, why not switch to raising fish that the Tribes don't target in their harvest? (e.g., coho/steelhead) The Tribes are clearly concerned about linking production with harvest and are therefore willing to negotiate harvest levels with the States for Chinook on the Columbia River. The quid-pro-quo is that the State will continue to produce Chinooks for everyone to harvest.

Remember, you don't always get what you deserve, you get what you can negotiate. This year, the States negotiated 9,000 Chinooks for Buoy 10 which should be caught by this Sunday. Hope other folks have more luck than I. Fish on.....


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MSB

Andy:

I believe the Tulalip Hatchery is supported with Casino money. Even though the hatchery and the casino started with handouts from the Feds the current hatchery budget is mostly if not entirely supported by the Casino. We do not pay for these fish (unless your unlucky at craps), the Tulalips do. They do not have to open the bubble for the public, instead they choose to as a good will gesture of being a good neighbor to the Marysville/Everett communities. They should be given credit for battling with Snohomish County on more protective buffers and higher minimum flow rates for Snohomish County streams. The Tulalips deserve some praise, but don't get me wrong I hate gillnets just as much as the next guy!

Hoh,
We misunderstood eachother, I was talking about hatchery fish in general. The Quinalts have paid for their fish. I brood stock 2 local rivers and I can't help but think I am out here busting my butt, because others are too lazy, but that is life, also I hate knowing that these fish runs that I am trying to restore, the natives get 50%. I don't know about you guys but when you make a deal with a guy to get 50% of his next pay check this doesn't mean he owes you half his life time wages. This is just a thought, I don't want anyone to get pissed about anything, remember this is just a chat room... RT email me and I can help you out a bit about where you where...

Andy Matthewsw