I was wondering if anyone out there has any way of getting these silvers to bite? Is eggs the best and what scents do you use on chinooks and silvers?

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Maybe a better question is there any bite enhancers out there that get silvers to bite? Whats best to use when silvers and chinook get lock jawed?

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C'mon I'm serious guys no one out there has replied. What are some of the hot scents for silvers and chinooks????

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Kings like baitfish.....think I smell one of them now

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

Fellet some hering and soak it in ainse oil and approx 7 sec spray of WD-40. I have not used this yet but am going to try it on sat. I think I heard about it on this BB!!

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Sockeye

Stlhdr1 - I noticed back aways you posted back to Kalamabama that you hammered bunches of 'Nooks and silvers on the Kalama using a special sauce scent on your eggs from your white Koffler. You've posted for other's ideas here. Since you brought up the subject, perhaps if you share the ingredients of that sauce with us you will be reciprocated with some definite strike enhancers. - RT

Gee, demand and take but no giving back? Hmmm. Kinda thought so (unless you're out of town or haven't accessed the BB, then please excuse - and check 'buds' "egg cureing" post thread) On your egg cure offer there, my feet are size 12's. Please brush your teeth before you pucker. (just kidding around - maybe)




[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 09-29-2000).]

SORRY REAL TRUTH didn't mean to leave you hanging I haven't had the opportunity to frequent my email. Gotta work and fish you know. The reason I ask is I wanted to know how much people really know and if they really have any idea about what scents can do for them. Well I should back up my mouth and a small pointer is RUBBING ALCOHOL and other ingredients.... Can't say much more but that should perk up the ears and get people moving... I just can't say much more it wouldn't be a secret..
t

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Haven't heard of anybody using rubbing alchol except for cleaning your hands or other biological cleaning. A fish attractant??????? Ok you threw the bone I bit...whats up.

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

Well smilesforu its something that if played with enough you may find it as one of the best bite enhancers in the fishing world... ONE WORD FOR YOU ALL DISPERSION!!!! I've actually produced a SAUCE that works wonders on chinooks and silver and didn't know how much people really knew, and its not that I don't want to share it its that it has taken me since I was 12 years old and about 250-300 days a year worth the fishing to come up with it but if you think DISPERSION you will be able to produce great bite enhancers yourself.!!!
REEL TRUTH I would love to have you email me so we could chat and possibly go fishing I would love to get in a nice deep hole full of chinooks and silvers and show you what this stuff will do. stlhdr1@hotmail.com

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Kind of a steelhead perfume. Maybe I should use some dawn dishsoap for the ultimate dispersion of my favorite oils in water. I already use borax and the fish bite so they must not be turned off by soaps. Interesting idea you presented.

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

[This message has been edited by smilesforu (edited 10-02-2000).]

Hey reel truth quick question for you, its sure odd how the recent Salmon trout and steelheader says what you had posted earlier about the sodium nitrate and tuna oil was that you or are you just a quick reader and typer.... HA HA

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Reel truth I was just playing but I would love to bring out some of this perfume for you to try on the silvers and chinook email me stlhdr1@hotmail.com

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Some things I like about you w/o even having met you St 1. You are very enthusiastic, like to experiment a lot, and you have the watertime to put in to make those qualities pay off. I used to put in the 300+ fishing days per year back before and during my fulltime guiding days. From there a taper off to a couple hundred. And more taper off for several years. Now I can only get out about 1 to 3 times per week during the peak of seasons. That whole life fishing frequency scenario kinda reflects life's sexual frequency a bit too; both really slow down after you get married (jk - or not - I'm 51 going on 31 actually). - Anyway, for me that's just enough fishing to have fun and keep up on what's working and to do a little experimenting. BTW, the Tillamook 'Nook article in STS is mine, so no quick copying here. I'm also finishing up on my first book which is a lot more tech intensive than the mag article; to be entitled "The REEL TRUTH", thus my BB moniker. I would like to get out fishing with a guy like you and will; just have to work it in to a very busy schedule so keep in touch via e-mail. - As for King (and to a lesser degree steelhead) scents, we are finding out so many things that they either like so strike or dislike to such a degree they strike at it to get it out of their territory. Are you aware that these fish not only strike at egg clusters because they like them and they are a natural food to them, but fishery biologist's strongly theorize that they also strike eggs due to an evolutionary developed instinct to "hit" other eggs to void the competition for their own eggs/offspring. That theory would lend well to why these fish will hit things that defy logic; such as WD40 or alcohol. Those certainly don't resemble the smell of food to them and could be considered to be somewhat of an offensive oder. Not just to fish either! Since I don't have the time to experiment properly thorough enough with some very good ideas I've come up with, I would like to have trusted good fishermen that do have enough water time to do it for me and report the results. I have thought about starting that on our website at www.ifish.net , (then to the Reel Truth BB). Let me ask/suggest a couple things of you. If you like the dispersion qualities of rubbing alcohol in scents, how do you think a 50% gel solution of DMSO would work? Have you tried putting Cravex Plus, the only scientifically proven fish appetite stimulator, into a slow dispersion medium for use in scents or on bait for slower moving water King fishing? There are so many things that work that some serious fishermen know about, but I have a strong hunch that there are a lot more that would work that none of us know about; yet! I'll be in contact. Take care and thanks for the shot of enthusiasm. That's cool! - RT (Steve Hanson) - Warning: Don't let DMSO come in contact with your skin! Especially if if has any chems in it!!

[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 10-03-2000).]

I think what stlhdr1 has been alluding to is that alcohol breaks down oils making them water soluble and much more effective as an attractant. But hey, this is no big secret. A good scent that I'll be happy to share is vodka mixed with anise oil injected into herring or anchovies.

Peace Out....

I put some alchol in a small bottle and added some shrimp oil....shook well. The oil disolved in the bottle. I then added some sardine oil...shook well. The sardine oil settles back to the bottom in a lump. So I added a couple drops of Dawn dish soap. Sure enough that dissolved the sardine oil. Only the sediment settled this time . I think I got way to much alcohol mixed in. I can now be a walking hospital instead of a fish factory...hmm I think I will use tequilla instead next time. If it doesn't catch fish I can always drink you juice..hehe Ok what kind of ratios are you using on these mixes.
Tight Lines
Edit update: After letting settle for a longer time period the sardine oil has resettled to the bottom. Perhaps it just needs to be shook before application.

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Marty
Steelheader.net marty@steelheader.net

[

[This message has been edited by smilesforu (edited 10-03-2000).]

Warning: don't let DMSO come in contact with anyone's skin; especially if it has other chemicals disolved within it! (experimental stage)

Thanks Ho and Marty. I think breaking down baitscents to disperse faster will have it's advantages in some types of water conditions, but the bait will not milk out scent for as long. And salmon don't need to have it solvent degraded in order to smell it; they do have great olfactory senses! I agree about the oil break down dispersion property of alcohol. It probably works as well on eggs as your experiment on shrimp Marty. Sardine oil has a thicker viscosity, so harder to break down (and harder to get the oder off your hands). Try those bottle experiments with WD40 and a 70% strength liquid DMSO Marty (90% is likely too hot), and let us know the results on some eggs as well as the shrimp and sardine. Compare the results with alcohol. I think those 2 things will break down the oils, as does rubbing alcohol, without having the inherant costic properties that could bother some fish; but obviously not others. I have not had the watertime to come up with definitive results with experimenting with clammy/fishy smelling DMSO yet. Have to be careful with that stuff. But we all know that WD40 has worked well for years on such as herring, shrimp, and eggs. I believe it's because it will do a similar oil break down dispersion function as alcohol, but it is less costic and more fishy smelling. However, alcohol may change as rapidly underwater as it does in the air. So I would like to hear more about it from St.1. - RT

Well you guys are right on track as far as the dipersion thing works out. But what I don't understand is what is DMSO. I have never heard of that before. I just want to let you all know that alcohol is just the start of it and to keep your eyes and ears open, and don't forget to keep squirting those baits with them sauces....

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Curious as to what DMSO is/stands for. Also, where you can get it. I've used WD40 for years and know it can do wonders. Halibut definitely react towards it. Thanks for the insite. This has been a great thread.

Steve

Curious as to what DMSO is/stands for. Also, where you can get it. I've used WD40 for years and know it can do wonders. Halibut definitely react towards it. Thanks for the insite. This has been a great thread.

Steve

Curious as to what DMSO is/stands for. Also, where you can get it. I've used WD40 for years and know it can do wonders. Halibut definitely react towards it. Thanks for the insite. This has been a great thread.

Steve

Speaking of halibut Steve try Shad wraps. I've spent the last week of june for the last two years up in Sitka AK playing around catching a million chinook, silvers and playing tug-o-war with monster halibut. We stayed on Mertz island and used there boats. One thing I really noticed is that the halibut love American Shad from the columbia river. We got into a couple of spots where there were guides that were hooking up much and they were using the regular herring, squid and jigs. I took and wrapped a jighead just the same way you do a kwikfish, but with a fillet of shad and tipped it off with a chartreuse scampie tail. It was unreal. I acually had my sauce up there and it did not do a thing on chinook in saltwater but the LINGS AND HALIBUT would not stay off of it.

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DMSO is liquid dimethylsuloxide. It was discovered by OHSU's Dr. Stanley Jacobs. It is made from plant organic extracts. It has a very unique property in that it will actually penatrate most any organic membrane and some cell tissues, including human skin and the underlying soft connective tissues; and salmon egg sack membranes. It also has the unique property of tissue anti-inflamatory action. Myself and other athletes at Portland State University, close to OHSU, used to get it in the 70's for careful clean topical application on the skin over sprained ankles to significantly speed up the healing time. And it works. Dr. Jacobs has tried for years to get it approved for medicinal use by the FDA. However, since it is so powerful of a penitrant the FDA would not pass it because it will take anything on your skin, or in impure DMSO, right into your blood stream with unknown side effects. None of us guys ever had any significant side effects, that we know about. I used it a lot for years on basketball abused feet and knees. It does tend to irritate and redden the skin. Dr. Jacobs has versions out licensed for experimental use that are in a gel form and also some with pharmacutical anti-inflamatories mixed right in it. He claims the side effects are greater for oral anti-inflamatory use than to have it go thru your skin and soft connective tisses locally on an injured or inflamed area. It is so penatrative that in several minutes after applying it over a sizable skin area you will have the taste of clams in your mouth. (A net search on DMSO will confirm all of the above). It works but the side effect concerns prevent me from using it on my body anymore. It can be found in some variety stores and pharmacies (at least in Oregon) labeled as a solvent with a skin warning, to get around the FDA. I have experimented with distilled water diluted 50% DMSO solutions for egg curing. It will break down oils and fats to a degree. It smells fishy (and taste clammy). I have tried mixing egg cure powder and pouring it over eggs (90% solution will destroy the egg sack membranes). I'm in the early stages of this experiment. Some of the eggs got gooey. Some have caught fish. I think it may have great potential in combination with other ingredients and mediums, for it's dispertion, scent, and curing factors. I just don't have enough time to be on the water properly testing it. That's why I would like Marty and St.1 to experiment and river test it for me (using rubber gloves!). Perhaps using it in place of alcohol in St.1's formula could be interesting! Stay tuned. - RT

ST1 and Reel, thanks for the f/u posts. Your shad on 'buts sounds like a very interesting trick. I have also done well using sardines pumped full of oil with a syringe and coated with WD40. Seems to be a good 1-2 punch.

DMSO sounds very intriguing. Not sure how much I want it around the house with my 16 month old, but I would love to hear any updates from your findings. I'll look forward to your posts.

ST1, I can think of a few great fisheries down your way where your cocktail must really come in handy! Good luck to you.

Steve

Joy Soap

DMSO was originally maunfactured as a cheap organic solvent I thought

Stlhdr1, Let me know if you find something halibut and lings won't bite, there scavengers, they eat just about whatever you drop in front of them. Octapus is probably the best bottom bait I've ever used.

stlhdr1 and Reel Truth. You both talk about interesting egg cures. When is the last time you tryed going back to basics. I have been using the same old cure since the late 70's. When I say same old I mean a cure I learned from old Milford from the original Woodland bate shop (Before he cut down the tree in fromt of his shop). The cure involves only borax and salt. Has caught many fish through the years. First used to catch monsters on the East fork (before hatchery introduction).

Fellas- The question seems to be "what chemical will penetrate organic membrane and have an affinity for H2O?" WD-40 was specifically designed to disperse water. I would suggest that some industrial chemistry be tried. Surfactants of all sorts are readily available with a myriad of characteristics. The speed at which it goes into solution with water as well as the temp can be controlled. You can also tailor it to disolve only certail oils based on molecular weight. I have access to the two most respected industrial chemists in the puget sound area and would be happy to find the chemistry to do precisely what you need. The only catch is that I need to know exactly what it is you would like to do. If it can be put into words, do it and we can possibly come up with the ultimate fish slayer. (I will work all day around cyanide but not ten minutes around DMSO)

Wit
From the sounds of it I don't want to be the DMSO guinea pig. I get to much of my bait all over my hands when fishing, but my joints would feel good . I think what we want is the fish/shrimp oils to disperse into the water. Which will allows a bigger chance of the fish smelling the attractant and bite our lure. The main problem is the different oils are made up a little differently. Perhaps they know of a couple simple universal solvent that will disperse all of the different oils into the water.

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WIT, PLEASE EMAIL ME BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT I NEED FROM CHEMISTS THAT I CANT GET OVER THE COUNTER!!!!! THINGS THAT I AM ALMOST OUT OF!!! THE STUFF THAT JUST RIPPS THERE LIPS OFF... And yes you all are on the right track and never give up because I never did and I know what I know now!!!
EMAIL at stlhdr1@hotmail.com

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Stlhdr
Send me some of that sauce and I will give it a try. If its that good you could retire!!

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EAST FORK are you talking about the same East fork I live on the Lewis?

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Smilesforu I would love to send it all over the world but I am a greety person and love catching fish. Hey what happened you are a smolt again, stay in line and know your pecking order. LOL

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Ya I think Bob saw I had more posts than he did. Must of figured I was spawned out. I know what you mean by having a magic bait. I have been there for such a situation in my past and will not forget how we couldn't keep the fish off while everybody else got frustrated. Keeps me looking for the magic when things slow up. One of the components to making the magic happen is having fish. The next one is that they won't bite anything anybody thows at them. The final one is the one everybody wants....the key to their lips!!
Tight Lines

Marty, I would rather have the key to Shania Twain's lips! - Raincity, I should clarify that Dr. Jacobs was the first to develope refined versions intended for medical use. An early version was first discovered for putting into water to make it penetrate wood better (it is very water soluable Wit). It was used for awhile to fight forestfires and housefires. I think it was because of risk to firemen of getting bad various fumes with DMSO mist on them that discontinued it's use for that. Not sure of that though. I recall first seeing the early versions work on a school field trip when a forester put regular water on a raw piece of wood and then water with a precursor of DMSO in it on the same piece of wood. He first put on the reg water and it sat there beaded up on the wood surface. Then he put the treated water on and it magically disappeared right down into the wood, only leaving a damp spot while the reg water still stood on the surface. When Dr. Jocabs learned of this amazing penetration property he was all over it to study it's ability to penetrate skin with medicines. - There is a lot of different good "medicine" to penetrate into egg sacks! Needs a lot of experimenting time. If no adversity occured with so many NW athletes putting it on cleaned skin over the years Marty, there should be little concern using it with rubber or vinyl gloves on. And try using it from a spray bottle. - RT



[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 10-05-2000).]

Stlhdr1, Yes The East Fork Lewis. Was the best winter steelhead river in Washington, maybe even the North West. This all ended in the early 80's with the runs being wiped out by netting at night above the Feeders. People were caught running a gill net between two drift boats throught the hole. But it was to late. Then the state introduced hatchery fish. That completed the destruction. Use to be the average winter steelhead was 15lbs. I still fish winter steelhead in the river, hoping it may come back.