Curious as to what DMSO is/stands for. Also, where you can get it. I've used WD40 for years and know it can do wonders. Halibut definitely react towards it. Thanks for the insite. This has been a great thread.

Steve

Speaking of halibut Steve try Shad wraps. I've spent the last week of june for the last two years up in Sitka AK playing around catching a million chinook, silvers and playing tug-o-war with monster halibut. We stayed on Mertz island and used there boats. One thing I really noticed is that the halibut love American Shad from the columbia river. We got into a couple of spots where there were guides that were hooking up much and they were using the regular herring, squid and jigs. I took and wrapped a jighead just the same way you do a kwikfish, but with a fillet of shad and tipped it off with a chartreuse scampie tail. It was unreal. I acually had my sauce up there and it did not do a thing on chinook in saltwater but the LINGS AND HALIBUT would not stay off of it.

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DMSO is liquid dimethylsuloxide. It was discovered by OHSU's Dr. Stanley Jacobs. It is made from plant organic extracts. It has a very unique property in that it will actually penatrate most any organic membrane and some cell tissues, including human skin and the underlying soft connective tissues; and salmon egg sack membranes. It also has the unique property of tissue anti-inflamatory action. Myself and other athletes at Portland State University, close to OHSU, used to get it in the 70's for careful clean topical application on the skin over sprained ankles to significantly speed up the healing time. And it works. Dr. Jacobs has tried for years to get it approved for medicinal use by the FDA. However, since it is so powerful of a penitrant the FDA would not pass it because it will take anything on your skin, or in impure DMSO, right into your blood stream with unknown side effects. None of us guys ever had any significant side effects, that we know about. I used it a lot for years on basketball abused feet and knees. It does tend to irritate and redden the skin. Dr. Jacobs has versions out licensed for experimental use that are in a gel form and also some with pharmacutical anti-inflamatories mixed right in it. He claims the side effects are greater for oral anti-inflamatory use than to have it go thru your skin and soft connective tisses locally on an injured or inflamed area. It is so penatrative that in several minutes after applying it over a sizable skin area you will have the taste of clams in your mouth. (A net search on DMSO will confirm all of the above). It works but the side effect concerns prevent me from using it on my body anymore. It can be found in some variety stores and pharmacies (at least in Oregon) labeled as a solvent with a skin warning, to get around the FDA. I have experimented with distilled water diluted 50% DMSO solutions for egg curing. It will break down oils and fats to a degree. It smells fishy (and taste clammy). I have tried mixing egg cure powder and pouring it over eggs (90% solution will destroy the egg sack membranes). I'm in the early stages of this experiment. Some of the eggs got gooey. Some have caught fish. I think it may have great potential in combination with other ingredients and mediums, for it's dispertion, scent, and curing factors. I just don't have enough time to be on the water properly testing it. That's why I would like Marty and St.1 to experiment and river test it for me (using rubber gloves!). Perhaps using it in place of alcohol in St.1's formula could be interesting! Stay tuned. - RT

ST1 and Reel, thanks for the f/u posts. Your shad on 'buts sounds like a very interesting trick. I have also done well using sardines pumped full of oil with a syringe and coated with WD40. Seems to be a good 1-2 punch.

DMSO sounds very intriguing. Not sure how much I want it around the house with my 16 month old, but I would love to hear any updates from your findings. I'll look forward to your posts.

ST1, I can think of a few great fisheries down your way where your cocktail must really come in handy! Good luck to you.

Steve

Joy Soap

DMSO was originally maunfactured as a cheap organic solvent I thought

Stlhdr1, Let me know if you find something halibut and lings won't bite, there scavengers, they eat just about whatever you drop in front of them. Octapus is probably the best bottom bait I've ever used.

stlhdr1 and Reel Truth. You both talk about interesting egg cures. When is the last time you tryed going back to basics. I have been using the same old cure since the late 70's. When I say same old I mean a cure I learned from old Milford from the original Woodland bate shop (Before he cut down the tree in fromt of his shop). The cure involves only borax and salt. Has caught many fish through the years. First used to catch monsters on the East fork (before hatchery introduction).

Fellas- The question seems to be "what chemical will penetrate organic membrane and have an affinity for H2O?" WD-40 was specifically designed to disperse water. I would suggest that some industrial chemistry be tried. Surfactants of all sorts are readily available with a myriad of characteristics. The speed at which it goes into solution with water as well as the temp can be controlled. You can also tailor it to disolve only certail oils based on molecular weight. I have access to the two most respected industrial chemists in the puget sound area and would be happy to find the chemistry to do precisely what you need. The only catch is that I need to know exactly what it is you would like to do. If it can be put into words, do it and we can possibly come up with the ultimate fish slayer. (I will work all day around cyanide but not ten minutes around DMSO)

Wit
From the sounds of it I don't want to be the DMSO guinea pig. I get to much of my bait all over my hands when fishing, but my joints would feel good . I think what we want is the fish/shrimp oils to disperse into the water. Which will allows a bigger chance of the fish smelling the attractant and bite our lure. The main problem is the different oils are made up a little differently. Perhaps they know of a couple simple universal solvent that will disperse all of the different oils into the water.

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WIT, PLEASE EMAIL ME BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT I NEED FROM CHEMISTS THAT I CANT GET OVER THE COUNTER!!!!! THINGS THAT I AM ALMOST OUT OF!!! THE STUFF THAT JUST RIPPS THERE LIPS OFF... And yes you all are on the right track and never give up because I never did and I know what I know now!!!
EMAIL at stlhdr1@hotmail.com

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Stlhdr
Send me some of that sauce and I will give it a try. If its that good you could retire!!

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EAST FORK are you talking about the same East fork I live on the Lewis?

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Smilesforu I would love to send it all over the world but I am a greety person and love catching fish. Hey what happened you are a smolt again, stay in line and know your pecking order. LOL

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Ya I think Bob saw I had more posts than he did. Must of figured I was spawned out. I know what you mean by having a magic bait. I have been there for such a situation in my past and will not forget how we couldn't keep the fish off while everybody else got frustrated. Keeps me looking for the magic when things slow up. One of the components to making the magic happen is having fish. The next one is that they won't bite anything anybody thows at them. The final one is the one everybody wants....the key to their lips!!
Tight Lines

Marty, I would rather have the key to Shania Twain's lips! - Raincity, I should clarify that Dr. Jacobs was the first to develope refined versions intended for medical use. An early version was first discovered for putting into water to make it penetrate wood better (it is very water soluable Wit). It was used for awhile to fight forestfires and housefires. I think it was because of risk to firemen of getting bad various fumes with DMSO mist on them that discontinued it's use for that. Not sure of that though. I recall first seeing the early versions work on a school field trip when a forester put regular water on a raw piece of wood and then water with a precursor of DMSO in it on the same piece of wood. He first put on the reg water and it sat there beaded up on the wood surface. Then he put the treated water on and it magically disappeared right down into the wood, only leaving a damp spot while the reg water still stood on the surface. When Dr. Jocabs learned of this amazing penetration property he was all over it to study it's ability to penetrate skin with medicines. - There is a lot of different good "medicine" to penetrate into egg sacks! Needs a lot of experimenting time. If no adversity occured with so many NW athletes putting it on cleaned skin over the years Marty, there should be little concern using it with rubber or vinyl gloves on. And try using it from a spray bottle. - RT



[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 10-05-2000).]

Stlhdr1, Yes The East Fork Lewis. Was the best winter steelhead river in Washington, maybe even the North West. This all ended in the early 80's with the runs being wiped out by netting at night above the Feeders. People were caught running a gill net between two drift boats throught the hole. But it was to late. Then the state introduced hatchery fish. That completed the destruction. Use to be the average winter steelhead was 15lbs. I still fish winter steelhead in the river, hoping it may come back.