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#983226 - 01/04/18 01:21 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 234
I'll just leave with this....I hope you guys end up with exactly what your pushing toward.

Have fun.

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#983229 - 01/04/18 01:56 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: JustBecause]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: JustBecause
I'll just leave with this....I hope you guys end up with exactly what your pushing toward.

Have fun.



I hope we do too!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#983266 - 01/05/18 05:51 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: JustBecause]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13453
Originally Posted By: JustBecause
So do you actually harbor the assumption that the entire goal of the "secret NOF meetings" is to screw the very constituents that they depend on for funding?

Yes or No.


No, it's not the entire goal, but the observed results show that screwing the very constituents who fund them is an acceptable outcome. Expecting that to change seems far more reasonable to me than for the Department to expect constituents to continue funding them when getting screwed.

Lawyers like simple yes or no answers to complex questions so that they can skew the conclusion in the direction they want.

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#983270 - 01/05/18 06:24 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Salmo hits a very good point. WDFW values agreeing with the Tribes above all else. Agreement, regardless of the cost, is acceptable.

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#983275 - 01/06/18 09:33 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Carcassman]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 192
Loc: United States
As we found out in 2016, not having an agreement has consequences too and the state fishers may not like this outcome either.


Edited by darth baiter (01/06/18 09:35 AM)

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#983278 - 01/06/18 10:25 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
WDFW's long standing "strategy of appeasement" and reluctance to "alienate" the Tribes has produced no alternative--they've conceded nearly everything, save total control of the resource--and that's pending at present. Stand up NOW, or be content to remain on your knees...

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#983291 - 01/06/18 09:16 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
LocalTalent Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 06/30/14
Posts: 135
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Ron said, "We surveyed the tribes and they unanimously agreed the North of Falcon is not broken and working fine."


WTF!?

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#983292 - 01/06/18 09:41 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: LocalTalent]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: LocalTalent
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Ron said, "We surveyed the tribes and they unanimously agreed the North of Falcon is not broken and working fine."


WTF!?


Ya, that was pretty much our reaction too! Are these guys out of touch or what?
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#983296 - 01/07/18 08:41 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
That may be asking/responding to the wrong question. Ask the Steelers of they like the refs in the Super Bowl against the Hawks and they would say the same thing.

The real question is does WDFW think it works. IF they answer honestly then we need to ask why the believe that.

I remember a meeting with one of those Advisory Groups where Phil was asked directly why WDFW would not pursue going after NI share of steelhead. His answer was that "We got the fishery we wanted". Nobody really pushed who "we" was and why less than half was good thing.

WDFW is coming out of NOF satisfied. If not, they'd work to change it. We need to know why they are satisfied.

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#983301 - 01/07/18 09:51 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Carcassman]
_WW_ Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/30/13
Posts: 233
Loc: Skagit
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
We need to know why they are satisfied.

It is the path of least resistance!
_________________________
Catch & Release Is Not A Crime

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#983305 - 01/07/18 11:41 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: _WW_]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: _WW_
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
We need to know why they are satisfied.

It is the path of least resistance!


Recall, in our Oct 26th Meeting with the senior staff at WDFW, the Director said in essence that the Departments strategy in dealing with Tribal issues is: "Cooperate and wait." That it is the Departments belief that it is in the best interest of everyone, not to get into a conflict with the tribes, in hopes that eventually, it will foster enough good will that the tribes will return the good favor.

We agree that without REAL cooperations between us and our tribal co-managers our fisheries are doomed. It is also apparent that we have and will have differences on the way we go about saving our fish.

However, the overriding point is we both have a lot of things in common, like wanting more fish. I believe that WDFW has done more damage in creating animosity between the Tribes and the sport fishermen than it has done good. Especially with its insistence that Secrets are the best way to do business, and it's supporting and engaging in Secret Meetings! In our view this is not "Cooperate" this is enabling. Enabling a feeling of entitlement that the tribes are to be treated "special" to all other stakeholders.

We as a community, not us against them, need to work on trust, as difficult and uncomfortable as that is. It is the only way we can truly work in cooperation. WDFW Needs to stop lying and hiding and doing deeds in the dark. Everything the department does should be out in the light of day! The Commission needs to MANDATE to the department that all fisheries business be open and public no matter who is sitting at the other side of the table! THAT should be the departments "strategy" and is the ONLY one that will truly work!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#983308 - 01/07/18 12:38 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7592
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
So, give them what they want, whenever they want it, is somehow going to morph into wanting less? Must have missed that training session.

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#983393 - 01/09/18 05:40 PM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1057
Loc: Graham, WA
We have it from a reliable source that our drive to have the Commissioners receive their confirmations has been successful. The Senate will begin the confirmation process on several Commission members this week!

Congratulations guys! This is a great indication that your voice is being heard!

Now, we need to get the Commission to overturn the disastrous RMP!

Get those emails out letting them know you fully support the RMP being rescinded and urge the Commission move in that direction as soon as possible.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#983690 - 01/16/18 11:04 AM Re: How Can This Possibly Happen? [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Most of you know that during this weekend's DFW Commission Meeting, the proposed Puget Sound Management Plan is slated to be addressed during the Friday afternoon session.

To briefly review, this broad and comprehensive Ten Year Plan was concocted without any involvement, knowledge, or approval on the part of the Commission--yet, other than a mild admonishment--no disciplinary action by the Commission has taken place. Their lack of action is sending the wrong signal.

It is glaringly obvious at this point that the only possible solution for the myriad of problems at WDFW is an immediate change in leadership. The way the WA Citizen Sportsmen see it, the Commission can collectively remove the Director, or surrender their authority to him via continued inaction.

Director Unsworth has had numerous opportunities to concede responsibility for the present crisis, but steadfastly remains sullen, indifferent and aloof.

Other issues support his dismissal--failure with construction of a new launching ramp at Point No Point, failure of any progress to reestablish Rec access to the Skokomish River, failure to move forward on the Wynoochee River mitigation and the recent Heaven's Sake incident, to name a few.

The Director has lost all support and confidence from marine industry business leaders, State Legislators, Fisheries patrons, proponents, advocates and stakeholders. His track record reflects a lack of leadership at a time when WDFW needs it the most...if approved in its present form, the new PSMP can only result in disaster for the our salmon resource.

WE NEED EVERYONE TO SEND A MESSAGE TO EACH COMMISSION BOARD MEMBER LIKE THE ONE BELOW...

Commissioner: You were appointed by the Governor after public initiative to be a representative of the people. Your duties include authority over the WDFW Director so as to protect and preserve the people's will.
The actions of Director Unsworth and his Managers are a direct and intentional challenge to that authority. As your constituent, I find it very troubling that there would be any question from any member of the Board as to the dismissal of Director Unsworth.
I call on each and every one of you to move forward rapidly with unity and cohesion, and remove Director Unsworth immediately. You owe it to the stakeholders to restore our confidence that the Commission is in charge. Do this because it's the right thing to do!

GET THIS E-MAIL OR ONE LIKE IT OUT NOW! IF THIS DIRECTOR IS ALLOWED TO REMAIN AS THE HEAD OF WDFW, WE ALL LOSE!

Send a copy to each Commissioner by name. Simply put their name on the subject line...

Chair Smith
Carpenter
Baker
Graybill
Holzmiller
Kehne
Kehoe
McIssac
Thorburn

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