Protecting our public lands from the private slash and burn crowd is a key component of being a hunter and a fisher...supporting those who do the slash and burn, is not.

Fish on...

Todd

Many businesses operate on the premise that they must not offend anyone, that they must remain apolitical. Good to see some have decided to use their power to challenge Blob the Builder and his wannabee billionaire buddies. I see a bright light at the end of the dark political tunnel we've been traveling through. Its source is the Mueller investigation, corporate actions/lawsuits like those described above and young voters, who have been recently empowered...or maybe, it's just swamp gas.

Agreed. I dislike the means but I do hope they achieve the ends. Not sure why it must be this contentious but I suppose this is the world we live in. "Mobilise!" Us vs Them, Sporties vs NTC vs Tribes, vitriolic hating on WDFW (most of them like to fish too), pointing fingers but avoiding mirrors. Just sorta wears me out sometimes.

You do have a way of simplifying complex concepts.

About 20 years ago my boss challenged me to put up or shut up regarding salmonid recovery, which we were working on. Took the bait, published the paper, and forever changed the trajectory of my career. There are times when you (I, we) need to take stands and be willing to accept the consequences.

Might hurt the "bottom line" for a business. But a fishing tackle manufacturer, for example, won't sell much gear if there is no fishing. If there are no places to hike, camp, backpack the manufacturers and sellers of that gear don't make it.

I find it interesting that you look at the actions from a business perspective. Frankly I don't like government picking the winners and losers, but that has always been the way it was/is.

I enjoy using motor powered vehicles off road to see areas and vistas that I would have no other way to access. In the last 40 years I have seen vast amounts of land closed to the use of motorized vehicles, and I miss access to those areas. I also love to fish, and much of what I enjoy about fishing is the solitude, which is not easy to find even on the saltchuck.

I am sure that as the population grows the pressures on our resources will also grow, I am not as sure as some are that the answer is to have the feds declare certain and very large areas of land as betreten verbotin. To me it sounds similar to the thought that some liberals espouse that our Earth would be a great place to be if it was not inhabited by humans.

It should be fairly obvious that as human population grows and expands the natural resources decrease. Happens all over the world.

We have, for example, some really good and accessible fisheries for wild trout because killing them is not allowed. That has certainly diminished the ability and opportunity of some to eat trout; they lost something that they valued. There are areas in the desert southwest that are off-limits to motorized off-road travel to protect, among other things, Desert Tortoise. Now, if you don't give a care about tortoises then this was a bad move.

Especially as population grows it is obvious that we cannot have it all. I don't think that we, as a society, have done a very good job of balancing access with protection. Some of that is because some folks choose to ignore the rules. Bottom line is, I believe, that if we wish to share the earth with naturally reproducing/self sustaining population of natural resources then we need to limit/control some of man's activities.

It is a choice. It is either/or.

we are all going to be extinct soon enough. People keep breeding.

That's the most popular choice...

I returned a bunch ofShit I bought at REI and used the money to buy Vista Outdoor products including a new rifle.

They can use their political activism to gofuckthemselves. I’ve picked up plenty of trash left behind by the REI tranny’s and metrosexual “nonconsumptive users”. They’re a bunch of ignorant hypocrites that belong in a coffee shop on Capital Hill not stumbling through the woods on well worn trails pretending to be outdoor activists.

The piles of human excrement that are a result of their compassion for the environment are fine as long as they confine it to their neighborhoods in Martin Luther King County and the Evian bottles at the trailhead testify to their deep respect for the environment that everyone else is responsible for. Their duty begins and ends in the voting booth.

Just like the disgusting mess they leave behind after their anger filled pusssy hat rallies. They can gofuckthemselves with a vegan chimichanga and the next Subaru that’s stuck on the back roads can kiss my trucks ass.

RowVsWade,If I ever get the opportunity to meet you, I would like to buy you a beer.

Thanks paguy it’d be my pleasure and the second round is on me. Unfortunately this place is plumb full of self absorbed effeminate liberals that think highly of themselves so be prepared for their slap fights, assuming their nail polish is dry, and many of them here have been here long enough that their cycles have synced up so it’s likely they’ll be pretty bitchy, harmless but bitchy. Especially if their goats aren’t putting out for them.

Get a room, ladies.


RvW was an effeminate REI customer as recently as last week, right before he returned his new fanny pack.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzing!!!!!

Dan is the purveyor of zing status to posts on this forum, but I can't help but add my approval of his excellent judgement.

RVW is right in that you can tell a lot about who's around the back country, or front country by that matter, based on the roadside litter. WVR leaves no Evian bottles, that's for sure. You can tell where WRV's been because the beer can litter sports the cheapest rot gut labels sold by the rural mini-mart, along with hot case food wrappers. No Charmin' TP on his trail either; that would take planning and forethought. His waste pile is characterized by his call sign, a sleeve torn from his Carhart shirt. But I give him credit for voting with his pocketbook.

REI member since 1968.

So you deride their use of political activism by engaging in commercial activism and then resort to abuse and name-calling? You have the temerity to use the term "anger filled" for a rally where the members wore pink knitted hats, then tell them to go fuckthemselves and all without a hint of irony?

Sigh... I see that, on the Darkside, the only winning move is not to play as the W.O.P.R. so preseciently stated.

No dipshitt I vote with my wallet and in the voting booth....a concept many of you pusssy hat wearing, Klinton voting dumbfucks can’t fathom or at least can’t exercise until you petition the courts for a restoration of your rights first. Did you feel left out of tweedle dee (Danny the midget) and tweedle dumbs (Jake the little sperm that got away) unintelligent retorts? Maybe you could translate pusssy hat gibberish into English because I didn’t understand Salmo’s post....all but the last line of his elderly ramblings anyway.

ETA...The “political activism” you endorse is nothing more than emotionally charged immaturity that accomplished nothing more than to show what a pathetic and unhinged bunch of retards the democrats have been reduced to. The “pink knitted hats” prove what a fuckingidiot you are because you can’t accept exactly what those pink knitted hats were, understandable for you since those “pink knitted hats” were as close to real pusssy as you’ll likely get unless you hang out with Jake or Salmo and what an insult to real women that movement perpetrated. You can wear your pusssy hat, it’s a free country and you never miss out on a chance to prove that your hat fits your personality. Commercial activism DOES affect change and does so without insulting women. You’d be better off with your “pink knitted hat” and screaming at the top of your lungs. I’m sure that’ll give you the attention you so desperately crave. I know that you’re incapable of understanding the difference between emotion and activism and that’s why you and your democrats have been relegated to the trash heap of history and your “pink knitted hats” a footnote of foolishness.

MAGA

Of course you are. While real men were off fighting a war chickenshitt liberals like you were lined up like sheep wearing bell bottoms waiting for the coveted chance to belong to any group that would take your goofy ass, not unlike your pusssy hat wearing heroes of today. REI was the only one that’d take a coward like you and why I’ve decided to head back today to return an old backpack. I’d offer it up for cheap to you losers but it’s an adult sized backpack and would be dragging behind you or Danny unless you two tag teamed it which is the only way you two could accomplish anything. It holds enough for a week in the Chugach or 10 days in the Brooks range. Google them....hint....

At least you can have the satisfaction of looking back over a your career knowing that the only thing you accomplished was to help fu.ck up our fisheries, suck off the teat of the taxpayer and do a crazy good impersonation of Cisco Morris....ooh la la. A terrible waste of a life now relegated to internet squabbles and incoherent ramblings. Congrats?

RvW has been busy! Fighting wars AND shopping at REI, he even has the time to return things.

A career pawn shop operator criticizing another business and it’s supply chain and customer base (one that he’s long been apart of) is pretty fuckin funny.

Shouldn’t you be working or are you still living at home while your mom dates your friends and pays your bills.

It’s always the losers that become democrats and your lack of comprehension along with your long list of failures in life indicate you could make a great “pink knitted hat” wearer.lol

Now go bus some tables and refill the water glasses...

I’d appreciate it if you could at least speak English in your weak attempt at insults but School was never your strong suit. Have you finished your GED yet? It’s obvious but not surprising that you’re out of the loop. I sold the shop 5 years ago and in semi retirement have been busy building my house and business in Alaska.

My oldest just got home from the Marine Corps, my middle son is high honor roll and starting varsity QB and my wife and I just got back from Vegas last night where I did great at the tables. We had great food and a nice trip. I picked up a couple more trucks to take up to our place in Alaska and another rifle. I’ll be heading north with those trucks and 2 more boats, a Duckworth and a Boston Whaler Montauk. Life has been good to me and it’s not by mistake.

I know that you’ll continue to struggle in life and you’ll continue to fail, it’s your upbringing that’s a hurdle you’ll never overcome.

RvW seems upset.

He is. Did I miss the part where someone asked about his vacation? Lol

Your Big Stick impersonation is coming along nicely.

You're never going to get there, but I can see you've been working on it.

Kudos for the effort anyway.

Congratulations?

It almost seems as if you are saying that any person who has a disagreement with the policy to close extremely large areas of land to access by motorized vehicles for off road travel by simple decree doesn't give a care about tortoises. That would be a very simplistic deduction.




While your second quote is generally correct it is also extremely simplistic. I say that it is simplistic because I have the same disagreement with your second quote as I do your first.
Should these limits/controls be placed upon a population by simple decree from one man? Frankly I do not see that as an acceptable way to handle the situation. Who is to protect the population from an ellected zealot?

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" Lord Acton

In both examples I was presenting a conflict between a use and preservation. Biologically, the tortoise population, or any organism, needs a certain area to support a self-sustaining non-inbreeding population. At some point with the tortoises there needs to be a line drawn, if they are to survive. Society has to decide where that line is and how large it is.

Same with human population. The earth has an (approximate) absolute limit of humans. The more people, the fewer free-living natural resources. Those magnificent million-plus bison herds on the Great Plains are doing just fine, right? Society, as a whole, will need to decide on how many people there will be. I am certainly not suggesting that a single person should make that decision.

It seems to me that jumping to solutions such as lock up zillions of acres for a turtle, limit humans to a population of X is a really neat deflection to get away from dealing with the question of just how we wish to share the planet in the future. There is no one answer stat than if we do not decide, we have decided to wipe it all out.

+1

Usually the closing of land is a result of big business coming in and closing off land OR people abusing the privilege. People use those lands and don't follow the rules, litter, beat the sh!t out of them and so on. It's a problem in every state. Years ago land owners were pretty good about letting people use their land for recreation but they can only take so many beer cans, fires, trash, and general abuse. I can name many places in this state where land owners just gave up and closed off their property and it's hard to blame them. Trump as his band of fvckups have a slash and burn mentality without regard for anything but money. (And porn stars.)

What's it like to have absolutely no clue? To be so far out of it that your reality parallels that of Rich G? I suppose you think gold will hit a million dollars and ounce right? If intelligence was a requirement of life you wouldn't be on this planet.

Sounds like you got your education at Trump University. Did you get your money back because you obviously have never in your life learned a thing! I hope you get off every time you step on your big truck's gas pedal. I know a lot of guys who can't get it up unless they're stepping on the pedal. That's usually because they couldn't get a toothless meth head ho to fvck them. Speaking of the voting booth, you better vote for your boy Trump in the next election (unless of course you're a felon which is probable) because every environmental change he's made will be reversed when he's in prison.

I purchased a nice new backpack and some other gear at REI yesterday. It’s been on my list for a while, hiking upper Quinault this summer. I was going to buy it mostly online but thought I’d offset RvW’s cuntiness and pick it up at REI.

I agree.


"With the new designations, Obama has established or expanded 19 national monuments for a total of more than 260 million acres of public lands and waters, more than any previous president. The Basin and Range monument alone, at more than 1,000 square miles, is nearly the size of Rhode Island." Source, The Washington Post

I would say the above is action coming from the decision of one man.



The above statement troubles and confuses me. As I don't really know what you mean. I don't think that government should forcibly control human population, and I also don't believe that the amount of protected lands should be unlimited, or static. I suppose that possibly we are close to agreeing, but I believe that I would be more conservative in my approach to closing land to to all of its possible and past public uses than some would.

It all depends on what you want off the land. If you want lumber, minerals, off-road driving, no large mammalian predators ('cept humans), recreation cabins, water-ski lakes, and a host of other developed uses that's fine.

If one is old enough, they can remember when they (for example) off-roaded way back into the back country with no discernible damage or change to the land. Now, 100 people doing that will tear it apart. Deer season in CA, when I was there, was about 4 months long (rifle) and I could go pretty much anywhere in the state. Not now. More hunters, less land and deer.

We could allow, for example, ORV in the desert, to (say) 10 people a year chosen by drawing. That would not go over well with anybody as we seem to want all or nothing at either end of the spectrum.