Another point is that the Willapa hatchery has been supplementing the Naselle and Nemah hatcheries the past two years. Both rivers have had large die offs possibly because the fish enter the hatchery encampments a bit too early in the season when the temps are still too warm. The Willapa hatchery kings aren't so quick to the Forks hatchery and have had adequate broodstock numbers when it was time to spawn them. What is the logic of getting rid of it as the primary hatchery?

Possibly because the Willapa River is the best Chinook habitat in the watershed.

"Possibly because the Willapa River is the best Chinook habitat in the watershed."

C'man, I thought the general consensus here is that the Naselle is the better habitat for natural Chinook reproduction. I'm interested in knowing one way or the other because, when the current WB policy collapses the fishery, we have good information upon which to build a better management policy.

I should have said that they think it is best. I seriously doubt that any of those streams are really good Chinook streams so WDFW is mashing a square peg into a round hole.

Thanks C'man. I agree about none of the WB streams being well suited to Chinook production, only that the Naselle is the best of the lot. Historical fisheries data suggests that more WB Chinook landings were from dip ins than from indigenous WB Chinook stock. WB ecology is best suited to coho and chum salmon, so any agency efforts to manage for a naturally self-sustaining Chinook run will be a process of trying to pound that square peg into a round hole.

Just look to the original 2010 draft plan:

https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01656/

This plan was pulled for the development of the current plan, pretty much before the production changes had been realized, due to the fishery management changes (read allocation conflict) it entailed. But, the production programs and the population goals mirror some of the discussion on this thread.

This was also developed with the Willapa Advisors, albeit some of the membership was different...

The Willapa policy ended up being about where straying could be limited to meet HSRG requirements. All were told that this could not happen on Naselle so the Willapa prime met this by reducing production at Forks Cr. Well as things turned out staff & funding did solve the problem which just plain upended the ole cart. So now it is the thought that staying on the Naselle will be controlled which leaves the question. How does Willapa being prime benefit the fish or harvesters? The unsolvable problem of Naselle straying is being solved which completely upends the matrix and rationale that drove the thought process for stream designations. All bs aside the future of Willapa fisheries are at stake be it rec or commercials.


I find it ironic that staff struggled to meet exploitation rates, meet escapement objectives, and got slammed by ICH. Then the one thing that all were led to believe could not happen happened, they solved the problem with straying on the Naselle. Over goes the cart!

If WB is marginal for Chinook why are they trying to have wild Chinook at all?

"If WB is marginal for Chinook why are they trying to have wild Chinook at all?"

I think the stated reason is that WDFW was concerned that continuing to manage WB as a Chinook hatchery wipe out fishery could lead to NMFS listing WB "wild" Chinook under the ESA. And this led to some urgency to develop a manufactured population of naturally self-sustaining wild WB Chinook.

I bet a dollar to a doughnut hole that it isn't possible in the Willapa River in the forthcoming half century.

Since ESA listings for Chinook are based on the status of an Evolutionarily Significant Unit (ESU) and Willapa Chinook are only a part of the Washington Coast Chinook ESU, its seems unlikely to me that Willapa problems by itself would result in an ESA listing. It would seem like other populations within the ESU would also need to be determined to be at risk. Doesn't seem like this is the case, for now anyway.

I think if NMFS water to list WB Chinook I would make them prove that wild native Chinook were there in anything more than marginal numbers. We know that Columbia fish dip in so catch data without supporting genetic information could be of no use.

Plus, "real" Chinook were large. A century of management had shrunk them, which makes them more amenable to smaller streams. It is possible that a century of making Chinook smaller has created a fish for WB.

WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/

November 8, 2018
Contact: Chad Herring, 360-249-1299

Public workshops scheduled on Willapa Bay salmon management

OLYMPIA – The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) will review the Willapa Bay salmon management policy during two upcoming workshops.

The policy is designed to help restore wild salmon runs and reduce conflicts between commercial and recreational fisheries in Willapa Bay, and enhance the economic well-being and stability of the recreational and commercial fishing industry in the state. The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission, which sets policy for WDFW, approved the plan in 2015 after significant public input.

At the workshops, state fishery managers will assess the outcomes of the policy, based on relevant data, said Chad Herring, WDFW fish policy lead for the south coast.

"Willapa Bay salmon fisheries are very popular and contribute significantly to the local economy," Herring said. "We need input from the public on the implementation and performance of the policy."

The workshops include discussion with Willapa Bay fishery advisors and an opportunity for public comment.

Both meetings are open to the public and will be held at the agency's regional office at 48 Devonshire Road in Montesano. The meetings are scheduled from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on Nov. 17 and Dec. 15

More information about the policy and meetings can be found online at https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/advisory/wbsag/.

WDFW will provide updates to the Fish and Wildlife Commission in upcoming meetings. The commission is scheduled to take action on the policy in February. Commission meeting times and agendas can be found online at https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html.

Belated WB fishing report. Don't feel too bad if you had a tough season out there for 2018.

Just in case anyone was wondering how the rest of the fleet did this past summer, Marine Area 2-1 rec CPUE data was presented today at the workshop.

It took on average 5.7 angler days to catch a king... and 13.5 angler days to catch a coho.

Catching up on some things and remembered this bit. At the last Willapa Advisers Willapa Policy Review meeting staff said that the Willapa prime was a pure political decision. Period, put a fork in it. To be honest few in the public have attended the meetings this time around and to be honest it matters little to this point. The review process has been about getting the numbers & presentation things correct so the agency does not have a Ron Warren moment at the Commission. If you recall he got nailed for …. incorrect information? They are planning on doing up options next so folks might want to pay a little attention now.

Dave,

I hope you're right.

Does that mean that Rec priority for Chinook is also back on the table?

Sure seemed like the rec priority for Chinook + the Naselle primary were linked politically in ways I could never figure out.

Maybe time to pay attention again, or is the fix already in on the next plan?

As I recall, there are issues with some local landowners on some rivers down there about rec access. They don't want recs fishing that river because of access, litter, and issues like that. Kinda NIMBY.

You know I do not know the outcome but the thing I do know is it will be Olympia making the decision and that means Ron Warren will pull the strings be it out of site. Doubt that leaves you feeling warm and fuzzy but it is the manner things are done. I doubt you lose the rec priority but you will lose the North end of the bay especially 2T and maybe U will be iffy. Not enough NOS spawners with small hatchery releases so the mix is such it will be a very limited impact number for the NOS.


As to the South end the same problem with the NOS adults and commercial and rec competing for a very limited impact of NOS ( wild ). This thing with the Willapa Policy is complex but bottom line is EVERYONE and especially the local folks are about to be just plain thrown out of the plane without a chute! Yeah it is probably time to get involved. Thing is the agency has never told the folks just what fisheries will look like. They can use the harvest model and simply use past data of similar years to show big, middle, small runs based on the new parameters the Willapa Policy and hatchery productions dictate. So far throughout the Willapa processes they have.... working..... ah declined to do that. One thing for sure it is going to be so far past ugly that is hard to see many viable fisheries surviving, most certainly T & U with the Willapa inriver competing for very limited NOS impacts.

Yup you should get involved. This has been and will continue to be a purely political decision. As I am editing I see CM's post and this. 2023 the Naselle weir is supposed to be redone to stop all straying. The Naselle will be down (salmon) to Coho fishing and just how much the NOS can take as to freshwater fishing will be limited. Several of the land owners who regard the Naselle as their private stream are about do a number to their shorts on down the road.

Any of you that planned on setting in on the Willapa Advisers meeting yesterday and showed up you have my apologies. It seems the meeting yesterday was cancelled without notice, well to the public anyhow as they did tape a notice on the door. I thought it was just a couple of guys besides my self that took the time to show up but my mail says a couple more. So bottom line I have zero idea as to what the reasons were. Sorry about that but we checked and the meeting notice stayed the same on the WDFW website. I suppose it is just more of the same in this Willapa debacle.

Just when you think you have reached the bottom of the barrel you find a door leading lower.

FYI, this e-mail notice did go out to Advisors and staff 5 days prior to the original meeting...

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to give folks and update on some scheduling changes to upcoming advisory meetings for the Willapa Bay Policy review. We have a meeting scheduled for this upcoming Saturday, December 15. The Fish and Wildlife Commission will also be meeting this weekend and have scheduled the Columbia River Salmon Management Policy review for Saturday. In order to not have advisors have to choose between providing input on Columbia River policy and/or attending the Willapa Bay Advisory meeting, this Saturdays meeting has been cancelled. I will be providing a briefing to the Fish Committee on Wednesday at 3pm in the Director’s conference room. This briefing will focus on the metrics that have been utilized to review the performance of the policy previously and asking for commissioner’s feedback and additional metrics to include in the review. I have attached a link to that information below. Also, the WBSAG meetings scheduled for January 8 and January 22 will be moved back by one day. Those meetings will now occur on January 9 and January 23, the meeting location and times have not changed.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings/2018/12/agenda_dec1418.html

Thanks,


Chad Herring

...

Rescheduling the meeting gave me and another WB Advisor the opportunity to attend the CR public hearing in Olympia. Unfortunately, the general public interested in WB was NOT given notice of the schedule change.