Looks like another proxy war brewing. Lots of oil and gas pipelines from Russia pass through the country enroute to the rest of Europe. Putin will school weak [Bleeeeep!] Obama . Obama drew a line yesterday on the issue the line was drawn with erase able ink. Obama and Biden would remove any conditions to negotiations for gay rights in Russia.

Sad.

Really sad. Our country could be in for the same. At least we can defend ourselves for a few minutes!

It's WAY worse than most imagine. They are using live 7.62x39mm now.



More

and more

last one

Compelling images.
Those snipers remind me of those coward Serbs that sniped old ladies trying to gather firewood and water in Sarajevo.

The Ukrainians I've met make sure that you know they're Ukrainians and not Russians.
This has been brewing for a long time.

This picture is stunningly sad.

He is carrying a shield back to wounded protestors to shield himself and other priests while giving last rights. There are reports of snipers shooting medics as they attempt to help the wounded - at least one young female medic was shot in the throat.

It's worth noting that prior to the uprising, it was 6 guns for every 100 civilians. Just sayin'.

Unarmed and moving forward as a team into DIRECT fire.

This is what the BALLS OF FREEDOM look like. This is what we used to look like. Would we see the same in today's America or is the apathy too deeply rooted?

I hope the EU takes em' and gives the middle finger to Putin. New word from Moscow is that the "hammer" has been ordered to be dropped.

This could get really, REALLY bad.

Good thing we have a strong wristed "president" in the Oval Office to lend a helping hand. Red line (Iran)...over stepping the line (Kiev)...blah blah blah.

Something about Putin is scary so I'm pretty sure he'll [Bleeeeep!] this up somehow. Throw in the EU, CIA, NSA and whatever other acronym and we just might see an epic fuckup.

Which is really too bad as the whole thing could most likely be averted with a new Gov and a crackdown against corruption. But that would put the folks above out of business so the Ukrains are [Bleeeeep!].

The good news is that Obama is so despised and has lost so much credibility with that part of the world that we get to sit this one out.

Truth.

We ain't touchin' this with a ten foot pole.

Obama is still waiting to see this this on the news.

The long held notion that a military or police force will not fire on citizens protesting is pretty much been proven to be a load. I hear it all the time in the gun debate.

Kent State?

Wouldn't be surprised if Putin is staging tanks near the border. The creepy thing about this is that it is playing out almost to the script in Tom Clancy's last novel. Ya' don't suppose Putin and Ukraine Prez read the translated version to formulate their game plan?

Glad they reached a "deal". Not sure how much of "deal" it really is, but at least people aren't losing their heads for the time being (figuratively and literally).

Very sad. Again, Russia is showing it's thuggish influence. Not saying the US hasn't had issues in our meddling in other country's affairs.

Putin needs to go. He will only continue the heavy handed manner of leadership. Not saying we need to remove him. The people of Russia need to do that.

Putin is the richest man in the world from what he continues to plunder from his own people. He also wants to restart the soviet empire. He sees Obama as a weak Teat and will push on evey possible opening while the first black Resident is in the whitehouse.

Many Russians like tough-guy Putin.
60% for/40% against.

The Russians have an advantage right now, a 50 year advantage. They know that their govt is corrupt and that their media is its tool. We are just starting to suspect that ours is and most have no clue. The one thing we had going for is that we tried to always do the right thing by others. We can no longer claim that.

Interesting view



L Todd Wood



Listening to the media gleefully hype the numerous construction flaws and rumors of corruption at the Sochi Olympics, I couldn't help thinking that Americans in general have no clue about Russia. Since I spend a lot of time in Moscow, I thought I would point out some of the similarities and differences.

So let's talk about corruption. Yes, Russia has systemic governmental corruption from the local to the national level; politicians up and down the line have their hand in the pie. Yes, there were billions stolen in Sochi. This corruption pushes up the cost of everything in Russia and prevents her economy from modernizing. That is why Russia was recently voted 92nd in ease of doing business by the World Bank.

However, these billions don't come close to the $800+ billion that was wasted by the economic stimulus the Obama administration enacted in 2009. Most of the money went to pay back supporters and lined public service union pockets--attempting to head off the rightsizing of state governments that will eventually have to take place. What about the auto bailouts where again billions were paid to unions and bond holders were left holding the bag, preventing the rationalization of labor costs that would have taken place in a normal bankruptcy process? How about the Federal government using the IRS and other government agencies to target the opposition? And come on, does anyone believe the case against Dinesh D'Souza was brought as a result of a normal FBI review? What about the $600+ million that was spent on the website for the Affordable Care Act? There is a strong case to be made that corruption in the United States siphons more money out of our economy than in Russia. Luckily the American economy has been resilient enough to overcome this hurdle.

Yes, Putin and other officials have palatial dachas in the countryside. But I wonder if they were more expensive than all of the global vacations the Obama's have taken? And yes, Putin has stifled the free press in Russia; in America, the corrupt press does the bidding of the Democratic Party. Which is worse?

Moving on to infrastructure, Russia has serious infrastructure deficiencies, especially outside the major cities. However, if you ever want to see a true, massive work of art, ride the Moscow metro. Every station is a gleaming architectural masterpiece with marble, statues, mosaics, and chandeliers. And, it's clean and well maintained and safe. All one has to do is ride the New York subway once to see the difference. Talk about third world! The tiling is falling off, escalators often don't work, riders are accosted by the homeless and panhandlers, the elevators stink of urine, etc. And I have to agree with Joe Biden, LaGuardia is a third world disgrace. JFK and Newark are second world. I wish Americans could see Sheremetyevo Airport in Moscow, then they would understand. It's a gleaming metropolis of modernity with a very nice Aeroexpress train to the capital city.

Let's take a look at culture. In Russia, most people speak several languages. Education is valued. Kids are loaded down with work every night in mathematics, literature, the sciences, history, etc. The Russian historical appreciation of the arts is well documented. And I'm not talking about a canvas smeared with feces, I'm talking about ballet, classical music, and theater. I heard recently a young girl tell her mother in Moscow, "Mom, there was a girl in my class today who hadn't heard of Vivaldi. Can you imagine not knowing Vivaldi?" I think that question speaks for itself. Just ask your child who Vivaldi was. In contrast, the American education system is collapsing under a union driven agenda of dumbing down our children and the promotion of socialist values. It was recently reported that one fourth of Americans don't know the Earth revolves around the Sun, case closed.

And speaking of airports, one notices another thing getting off the plane in America. We are fat. We are not sturdy, or strong, or plus -sized. We are fat. There is no obesity epidemic in Russia. People spend time cooking with things like fresh vegetables and enjoy the taste of things rather than filling themselves to the gills with processed carbohydrates and sugars.

And last but not least, yes there is organized crime in Russia. It's a problem. Like any country, there are places that are not safe. But what you don't see are gangs of teenagers looking to knock out someone of a different race. Instead of looking for who is committing crime in America, the administration looks to remove the consequences of one's actions by making it illegal for employers to conduct background checks and campaigns for felons to be able to vote (to garner more Democratic votes). I haven't even brought up our refusal to enforce immigration law.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a patriot. I served my country. I'm proud of her history and what she used to represent. But I'm not proud of what's going on today. I don't recognize America. She is sinking into a moral and cultural black hole of corruption. Russia is regaining her rightful, historical place in the world that was sidetracked by the communist revolution. America is spending her days thinking of ways to pick your pocket--we'll cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you.

Russia is rising. Maybe we can give her a high five on our way down. Instead of criticizing others, look in the mirror America.

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L Todd Wood needs to renounce his citizenship and relocate to Moscow at his earliest convenience.

Godspeed to the Ukrainian people.
Hopefully the Czar of Russia will not counterattack them.

Good !
Let the citizens choose their government.
I have high regard for these Ukrainians.

They're not European and they're not Russian...they're Ukrainian.
Gotta be tough to be an independent buffer state or be subjugated.

Not true at all. The older people in Ukraine from Crimea and eastern regions are pro Russia and consider themselves Russian. The younger Ukrainians from the western Ukraine identify with the west and want to align more European. Russia considers the whole thing the center of the creation of Russia and will most likely not tolerate splitting up the area. It's a real pickle for everyone and Russia has already implied it will go to war to preserve its hold on the area. The pussy Europeans will most likely let the Western Ukraines get hung by their yam sacks by Putin here shortly.

I knew this would be coming.
It's about the majority.

These people are dying in the streets for what is right for them, their children and future generations of Ukrainians.
Those who can't live in an independent Ukrainian state will go to Russia.

The Lenin Monument from Kiev, Ukraine being transported to the junk yard..



What a waste, I'm sure the Socialists in Seattle would like another Lenin statue, and I'll bet our Governor could find a place or two in Olympia also.

Yep, a damned waste.

His twin resides in Fremont.

It's not over - by a long shot. Russia has made some serious moves in the past 2-3 days. Russian Gunmen have overtaken the parliament and presidential palace. Russian troops are performing full scale readiness exercises along the entire front and MIGs are on high alert. Who the hell knows what the KGB is up to?

More than likely it’s a bunch of Putin saber-rattlin', but it's still disconcerting to say the least. An isolated Venezuela is one thing. The Ukraine is an entirely different geo-political monster. If the Ukrainian people thought a few snipers were bad, wait until they meet the real Red Army...

It'll all be fine. Why, because Barrack Obama is a pacifist, and we all know how well that has always worked out in the past.

Russian troops in the Crimean. Putin wants a shootin' war.

And no one to kick 'em out.

Gonna take some big time chess playin' to make this one end favorably for the West.

I don't believe that Putin "wants a shootin' war", Putin wants an excuse to reestablish the Soviet Union, and because President Obama is such a poor leader, Obama in fact could be Putin's excuse to achieve his wish.

By the way If Obama's proposed defense cuts pass, the cuts that were put forward by his stooge, in all future situations our only choice may be to surrender or face war on our shore, or perhaps both.

That's not as simple as Fox News makes it seem. Russia and the US know all the costs of war and are grown up enough to keep it a proxy not a direct conflict. Russia's military is 50 years behind ours . It's been proven in Iraq twice and Afghanistan . The military objective was met in two weeks in all wars. We smashed their [Bleeeeep!] and made impossible to mobilize any force post haste. The political war did not allow a quick conclusion and extended asymmetrical gorilla war ensued. If we went in no holds barred fuk the other guy . China is 100 years behind us . All the winger bs that chinas rising militarily is propaganda. Their planes are from the 50's they have one aircraft carrier that had to be towed by tugs. They have no real long range missile capability. They cannot mobilize anywhere in the world . They have no capability. Now China is dangerous because they have a huge nationalist wave sweeping the country combined with an army with zero expierience at war. The guy who has never been punched is most likely to pick a fight because he wants to prove he can take a punch. However we could stop any Chinese attempt in a matter of days with our technological advantage. Lastly the remotely operated war is the war of the future and we will win it because we own the only technology that is capable. We can reduce the size and presance of or forces as we deploy more sophisticated systems.

I don't see anyone touching US soil in our life time. The powers that be want you to think it can happen as a form of enslavement . Don't buy into it . If we have not learned to be more pragmatic from 2001 to now then shame on us.

To your first paragraph, I say, Korea/attrition.

To your second paragraph, I say that I agree, but I am an old man.

Looking like Russian troops are in place to cordon off Crimea.

Rev. Blackmouth,

I spoke too soon about Putin wanting a shootin' war. He doesn't; nobody with half a brain or more wants war with the U.S. I agree that Obama is no obstacle to Putin's intentions. Obama is a complete fvck up in foreign policy/diplomacy unfortunately. Definitely not acting like a brainiac. Sorta' reminding me of some of Bush's gaffes.

I don't know that Putin wants to re-establish all of the former Soviet Union, but it looks like it's in Russia's national interest to retain resource rich and strategic locations like Georgia and Ukraine. Unkraine has the major Black Sea port on the Crimea, and many of the major oil and natural gas pipelines connecting Russia to Europe run through Ukraine. All important assets to the Russian mafia that runs Russia.

T.J.,

Good summary. What do you know about Ukraine? Have the Crimeans always been Russian? Or did it gradually become so over the USSR years? My limited understanding is that Ukraine has never been a single united entity by culture or ethnicity, so divisiveness is normal there. Do you know if that is correct?

Sg

Don't think Russia will let go of it's Black Sea base at Sevastopol no matter what happens.
If the Russians are not politically able to partition off Crimea, I could see Sevastopol becoming something similar to Guantanamo.

Putin's "Georgia model" would suggest that a partitioning of Ukraine will happen.

SG

A couple of things at play from my studies but your assumption is partially right. Several Slavic tribes in Ukraine are considered the birth place of Russia. Kiev was the Capitol of Russia before Moscow. Crimean's consider themselves Russian. Lastly people in Ukraine that were old enough to have lived before the peak of the USSR tend towards the Russians. The younger people want to be more European. Pretty much a divided pie. Much like Iraq and Afghanistan, makes them natural places for the big bullies to make the locals lives miserable. The US and its allies went on and played their cards after weird Al Yankovich sided with Vlad economically.

That vote was meant to be an insult to the US. It mocked the vote congress took to authorize the invasion of Iraq. They cited the threat to Russian people and the homeland. It was taken after 2000 troops were already in Crimea. Putins [Bleeeeep!] for tat.

Unmarked uniforms? What a bunch of chickenshits! Isn't that some sort of war crime?

Yep, we can shoot 'em on sight.
Face masks even....how chickenshit.

I hope we're not in range to shoot 'em on sight, though.
It's Russia's backyard, they are going to do as they please... just as we would.

I agree.



I also agree.

The handwringing and righteous indignation when other countries do exactly as we do...exactly, to a tee...is always entertaining, and not in a good way.

Fish on...

Todd

Obama is completely inept if it were WW II we would be speaking Japanese or German . If it were the Cold War we would be speaking Russian . Think about the luck of this fuker . No army strong enough to challenge us and he is lucky that his ineptness in Syria and Ukraine ends up being to our benefit. If GW , Reagan or Clinton were president we would have four wars going.

At one time, not long ago, your statement might have been correct.

Yeah - being in four wars would be nifty, you fuckin' idiot.

Why don't you just shut your fuckin' hole, Choad? Maybe it's YOU that's inept, bein's that Obama is the POTUS and you're just a sh!t stain that runs the world from your keyboard.

I also agree but am confused by that last statement. Are you saying the US regularly sends troops into sovereign nations without a flag patch? If so that's chickenshit too and scares the hell out of me. Without out that patch aren't you just a spy and eligible to be shot on the spot and outside any protections of the world court?

I've noticed that our drones don't have a flag or a US star on them and have always felt that too was chickenshit!

The CIA has been doing this for decades. Some say it's a necessary evil, some say it's just evil. ymmv

OK-I did a little research. Seems that the dog tag is the determining factor if the soldier is acting within international laws and not the uniform.....

"Those who are given an opportunity to observe or talk with prisoners of war should ask to see the identification documents. Not only is the card evidence of the person’s status under the laws of war, its absence is evidence that the captor is not in full compliance with the same laws. The presence of the identity disks and the identification card is a ready and visible means of determining some minimal level of compliance with the laws of war concerning prisoners. - See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/511/#sthash.bhQMw5d9.dpuf"

Spies are not protected by international law. They can be shot on sight and are never considered POW's. Terrorists have more protections within the law then spies. Which is one reason why the uniform thing jumped out to me.

Wild ass guess here...but I suspect we've sent more un-tagged and un-official troops into sovereign nations to interfere with their sovereign activities far more...perhaps by a factor of 100...than we've ever sent in "officially".

Fish on...

Todd

The various spook arsonists have been torching sovereign nations at an ever increasing rate with both impunity and the approval of their masters holding the moral high ground in the eyes of their respective, blissful populace. For the first time, the district firefighters show up and the recidivist arsonists et al get their tighty-whities in a twist, calling the firefighters unlawful belligerents when the flames are doused without loss of life. Maybe congress and the UN will hold a vote in response. The irony of these most recent events is just rich....

History holds that currency wars generally degrade into shooting wars. Russia has the lowest national debt of the other G-20 corporations with a correspondingly low debt:GDP. Iraq and Libya, like the BRIC nations, moved away from the USD for international commerce. Wars are always a balancing of accounts and consolidation of interests. After the crash of 1907 came WWI, after the crash of 1929 came WWII. Perhaps 1939 Poland = 2014 Ukraine?

What? I thought wars were about "terrah", "they hate our freedom!", and the protection of human rights?

If they're really just about money and theft of resources on a massive scale then I guess I'll have to change my whole worldview.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Just kidding.

One theory being floated is that Syria, Ukraine, Venezuela,Iran others are designed fires to keep Putin busy and using massive resources at great expense much like we did the USSR. We won the Cold War by bankrupting them . The CIA spent 5 billion to light this latest fire that will cost Putin 100, of billions . They hope he will cut of gas to Europe so the Saudi cartel will pipe it in and keep them in the US sphere.

All because the Ukrainians wanted to get rid of a corrupt President.

Pretty sad but I agree with most of the analysis here.

Corruption and oil money may very well start another shooting war. Really sad as it sounds like Ukraine has enough shale oil to eventually become an exporter. Ain't in anybody's interest to bake a new pie for Ukraine when there is still money to fleece out of the existing pies.

With the internet and YouTube I wonder how long it will take for people to figure out that none of this has anything to do with freedom or ideology?

Again it's sad as this all just seems so 20th Century.

And like I said in my first post. Putin scares me. I think he's a psychopath. Some of the stories I hear from my Russian buddies are eye opening.

I've come to the conclusion that it's the natural order of humanity, in general, for psychopaths to rise to the top leadership positions because they have no moral restraint or compassion for others. They will do whatever is necessary to get power with no regard for the consequences to others. That gives them the advantage.

Just spent a few minutes looking at Google maps. Only the Russians can look at CP and think that's a good place for a navy. In order to get anywhere they got to go thru downtown Istanbul. You could take potshots with a 30-30 from your couch.

And that just gets you to the Mediterranean.

Broodbuster,

Take a look at all of Russia's "waterfront." The Black Sea port of Sebastopol is one of its best. The North Sea port isn't all season serviceable I think.

Sg

Salmo,
I knew that but had never really looked at how poor their options really were. Looking at the black sea that sure doesn't look like a great place to have a navy but I do understand they have to make do with what they got.

Best line ever used today to describe Kerry as he heads out to fuk up foreign policy some more , " a haircut in search of brain"

From the Gourdian..........

Russia is using a display of force combined with intense psychological pressure in an attempt to disarm Ukrainian military units in Crimea, according to accounts of several confrontations relayed to the Guardian.

On a day of confusion and rumours, Russian troops without insignia were still surrounding almost every Ukrainian military installation in Crimea, and an unsuccessful attempt was made to entice naval officers to defect to the Russian side.

In one tense confrontation, one of Russia's most senior army officers told a group of angry Ukrainian marines that he was carrying out Vladimir Putin's instructions to disarm Ukrainian forces. Igor Nikolayevich Turchinyuk told the marines at Feodosia that he wanted them to lock their weapons in a warehouse and surrender to Russian guards, according to an audiotape of the encounter obtained by the Guardian.


One marine asks: "Am I a terrorist? Are we causing a threat to the Black Sea fleet of Russia?" Turchinyuk replies: "We have an order, which we are carrying out. The goal of me coming here … is to carry out the task given by the president of the Russian Federation in agreement with your legitimately elected president [Viktor Yanukovych]."

During another encounter at the headquarters of Ukraine's fleet on Monday morning, Ukrainian navy officers rejected pleas for them to defect to the self-declared Crimean government.

The naval head, Denis Berezovsky, who on Sunday announced he was defecting to the Russian-backed Crimean authorities, addressed officers at naval command in Sevastopol to try to convince them to follow suit. But his replacement, Serhiy Haiduk, was also present and appeared to win the day.

The officers broke into applause as Haiduk read them an order from Kiev removing Berezovsky from his position, and told them that Berezovsky was facing treason charges. When Haiduk had finished his dry but compelling address, the officers spontaneously broke into the national anthem, and some were seen to cry. Berezovsky showed no visible sign of emotion.


"I know my men will stay loyal to their oaths," Haiduk told the Guardian before the address. "What Berezovsky has done is a matter for him alone. When he brought intruders in here, we did not offer armed resistance as would have been our right, in order to avoid any provocations the other side would like."

Officers at the HQ said Berezovsky had been guilty of treachery twice, the first time when he broke his oath, and the second time on Monday morning, when he requested permission to enter the headquarters and let several Russian special forces officers slip in behind him.

When Berezovsky requested questions from the officers, a chorus of criticism broke from the ranks. "In what way exactly did foreign powers intervene in Kiev, compared to the way they are intervening now in Crimea?" asked an officer to applause. "Don't ask provocative questions," Berezovsky barked back.

"We are resolving the matter by peaceful means, but we will never surrender our weapons," Haiduk said.

Berezovsky refused to comment to the press. In the end, he left the building accompanied only by his guards.

While the navy was asked to defect to Crimean authorities, those at bases in Kerch and Bakhchisarai said they had been asked by the Russians not only to defect to Crimean authorities but to the Russian army itself.

At Bakhchisarai, Lieutenant Colonel Vladimir Dokuchayev said: "There were suggestions that we joined the 'Crimean people', whatever that means, but first and foremost they asked us to join the Russian army. There was no talk of how this would work logistically, it didn't get to that. We said no, obviously."

There is tremendous pressure on the troops, surrounded as they are by Russians, and many of them have their own domestic pressure. Many ethnic Russians in Crimea favour the idea of a union with Russia, and some of them are sending messages to friends and relatives in the army urging them to desert.

"Many of us are receiving messages and calls from friends and family," said Dokuchayev. "Of course, that is never going to work for officers, it's pointless, but it has worked on some of the rank and file. We don't obstruct them, if people want to leave, they can."

He admitted that some had taken up the offer, but would not say how many, except to claim it was "a small number". A Ukrainian television journalist present at Bakhchisarai begged an interior ministry representative to ask authorities in Kiev to make more public statements in support of the troops in Crimea.

"We've had a lot of people calling in, they are terrified, they want to keep their oath but they don't know what is happening and are worried about getting proper support from Kiev," he said.

Among the officer class, however, even those who are fans of Russia are refusing to budge. One voice on the tape from Feodosia says: "From my childhood I have lived right next to Russia, we have always looked at Russia like an older brother or a helper, and we always were thrilled by your courage in different wars and operations, and saw you as a defender and expected help in any situation. Nobody could have imagined that such an awful time would have come to our country, but in our weakest moment, you have decided to do this. Do you not think your current behaviour will ruin not only our country but yours?"

The general responds with a long answer about Russia's greatness, which culminates in an ode to the Winter Olympics, held last month in Sochi. "The international community trusted Russia to hold the Olympic Games, and not every country in the world is trusted with something like that," he says.

In Sevastopol, officers listened sullenly as Berezovsky tried to entice them over to the newly proclaimed Crimean fleet he now heads – assuring them they would retain their ranks and that there would be no interruption of salary payments. "Viktor Yanukovych is the legitimately elected president of Ukraine," he told them, arguing there would be no breach of oath if they served Crimea. "The seizure of power in Kiev was orchestrated from abroad," he said.

Timur, a Ukrainian frigate captain who declined to give his last name for fear of threats to his family, said: "I will stay true to my oath and I am sure this is also true of my fellow officers."

Not helping matters is the fact that despite the fact that the well-organised and heavily armed troops are arriving in vehicles with Russian military plates and introducing themselves inside the bases as Russians, a bizarre pretence is still being maintained that the men are some kind of locally inspired volunteer unit.

At Bakhchisarai, Vladimir Mertsalov, a representative of Crimea's newly proclaimed authorities, said he had no idea who the Russian troops were. "I don't know if they are Russians. I can't tell you who they are, I have no idea, I haven't asked them, but all I know is that they are guaranteeing our security here," he said.

Later, in Sevastopol, the head of the local branch of the pro-Russian "Russian Bloc" party, Vladimir Tyunin denied there were any Russian forces present. "Where are Russian troops here? These are our local self-defence units," he said, pointing to the masked and heavily armed soldiers standing behind him in front of the Navy HQ gates.

Away from the stand off at the Navy HQ, there was also a quiet but ominous standoff in Sevastopol bay, between Ukrainian naval vessels and the Russian Black Sea fleet.

On Monday, Russia's Black Sea fleet was seen to be blocking the mouth of the harbour, by anchoring a cable-laying ship in the channel on the inside of the breakwater, and positioning a corvette in the channel outside the breakwater. Ukrainian ships are alongside but manned and ready to sail for Odessa, according to the source.There were rumours of an ultimatum from Russian forces to Ukrainian units to surrender by 5am local time on Tuesday or face a storm, but although the defence ministry in Kiev appeared to confirm them, local sources on the ground said they had heard nothing, and the Russian ministry of defence denied any ultimatum had been given.

Gonna be a shooting war by Thursday night. I don't think the Ukranians are going to buckle. I saw in another article the size of Ukrains active military and it was pretty sizable.

And for the record I still believe that not wearing Russian uniforms is chickenshit! Once they figure out the military Ukrainians aren't going to be traitors they'll blow something up and blame it on terrorists or extremists. I guess that play book has already been written.

This has the potential to get ugly

Sol Dunce extends his lead in biggest dumfuck on PP leader board.

Fish on...

Todd

Really? I thought slabby was in 1st?

Maybe he relocated to Denver?

Damn Todd, that avatar !
Please post every chance you get !

Pewtin's got Crimea.
He also has the West....by the balls.

This one will get a few weeks, maybe a month, then onto the next one.

Fish on...

Todd

I figured the avatar had already been discussed and thought I'd let it go


BUT since DD brought it up...


Nice work Todd. Very nice.




I'd be thanking my lucky stars every night right before bedtime!

What fuking bullshyt..a billion? WERE BROKE!!!!

Man...if you're that upset over a billion dollars you must have been really, really, REALLY upset when we spent somewhere between 4 and 8 TRILLION to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

Don't bother.

Fish on...

Todd

Mom jeans Obama is out of moves . Sending Mr. Ed is the equivalent of hoisting a white flag. Old horse face still thinks he is in congress and speeches will work on Vlad. He thinks talk softly but carry a big stick means pick up your dog [Bleeeeep!] and put it in a baggy and carry it around.

Liberals are the dumbest fucs on the the planet! Always have been , always will be.

Spoken like a true dipshit lieberal....8 trillion..GMAFB.

Why would our own government bail out a country on the other side of the planet that is going bankrupt? Face it Ukraine is a beat down, bent up, stupid, bankrupt, pos country that I will never go to or care for yet they are going to get a bailout from me??? Has this country lost it's priorities? There are people going bankrupt here EVERYDAY. Why isn't our government standing in line waiting to bail THESE citizens out? Does Obama think he owns the whole planet? Why even bother with a country on another side of a planet? Russia is right there and I mean literally.

According to retodd, it's just a thousand Million dollars.

What's next Obama turning the U.S. into a worldwide refugee camp?

This is just the first installment.

Fish on...

Todd

They, may, of course...if Colin Powell trotted out another 45 minute long lie about yellow cake uranium and Cheney mentioned mushroom clouds 47 times (also all lies).

Fish on...

Todd

Got to love it . The community organizer in mom jeans has been owned on every foreign policy issue and his supporters attack GW as their only defense of his ineptness.

Bush was inept. Bammers' inept. They're all inept and the reason being because we, as a voting populace...are inept. A break through will only come when a true DC outsider raises their hand. Until then, the race to the bottom continues, so back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Spanker, he started a war in Ukraine already between the Russians and the Ukrainians in case you missed it. Don't discount the costs yet it's just starting. With Russia , China and Iran on one side and the US , SA and Isreal on the other I am sure it will end well.

I'm just relieved that those 30k troops aren't troops at all just well dressed local militia and that they are there to ensure the secession vote is all on the up and up.

I'm also relieved that any EU economic sanctions will specifically exempt London. Can't have the Russian mob bosses not paying taxes on their 10 million pound Piccadilly condo's or have their kids booted out of the private schools that Londoners can no longer afford. We wouldn't want the Russian 1%'ers to suffer!

And let this be a lesson to all the other countries. Boot out a corrupt Government and you just allow the rich countries to fight over who gets to be the next corrupt leader.

Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Georgia, Ukraine. Did I miss any? Next?

Why can't the 1%'ers just kill each other and leave the rest of us the hell alone?

Because they have popular support from many based on the lie that you, too, can be one of them...if it weren't for those who are stealing your heritage and future from you.

Fish on...

Todd

I am surprised people have not started whacking the 1% Or making it real hard to show their face in public driving $ 500k cars etc. I suppose sitting in front of a tv with a half rack waiting for the un employment check has less risk.

I read an opinion piece in one of the UK rags laying out how the UK gov could sanction the Russian mob bosses in London specifically. Much of it was based on kicking their kids out of their private schools. Then the next day I read in that same rag that the UK would not support any EU sanctions that didn't exempt London.

After all we need the corrupt kids to learn at a young age what other corrupt kids they can trust in their adult professions. Is it any surprise Assad and UBL where educated at Oxford.

Throw in the Ivy League pipeline to the WH and Wall Street and they're not even hiding it any more.

See Hitlers comment below!

That's not how it will play out. Any revolution will be led by 1%'ers who get pushed out of the "rule by corruption" club and are thus left on the sidelines as their peers gain power and wealth. Think
Washington and Jefferson etc.

There is a maximum sustained corruption level. That level is much lower in the countries mentioned above and god only knows what the cap is in the good 'ol USA.

Hell, Bertha could cause a revolution in some small countries

I am talking more about people just getting fed up and going rogue. The system still works for far too many people to even talk about out right revolution.

Also people are too well indoctrinated in our system and too invested in living in the box. Just look at fashion trends and entertainment. The fact that people pay money to see a Adam sandler movie and close to $5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks and standing line to do it is pure proof that there is no hope for America.

Lol, never thought about Starbucks in that manner but it's true and funny.

TJ, I agree.

It's one reason I thought the Hunger Games trilogy was brilliant. Give the average Joe enough food and entertainment and they'll ignore just about any evil. Sorta like the Nazis.

Although I'd substitute humanity for America.

Don't forget wine. Gotta keep the French at bay too

Harmless sheep...but the higher ups have forgotten the only single rule they really needed to remember:

Hogs get fat, and pigs get slaughtered.

Fish on...

Todd

Amen as well.

Interesting.....

22 U.S. Code § 8422 - Authorization of assistance
(a) International military education and training...
(3) Additional authority
Except as provided in sections 2753 and 2799aa–1 of this title, the second section 620J [1] of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (as added by Public Law 110–161) [22 U.S.C. 2378d], and any provision of an Act making appropriations for the Department of State, foreign operations, and related programs that restricts assistance to the government of ***any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree,*** and except as otherwise provided in this subchapter, amounts authorized to be made available to carry out paragraph (2) for fiscal years 2010 and 2011 are authorized to be made available notwithstanding any other provision of law.

Doesn't breaking the law have some consequences?

That is Putins argument.

Obama and our allies would argue he abandoned his post after murdering his citizens and thus was a legal transfer of power.

As Obama said "Putins lawyers obviously see this differently than our lawyers."

As I proffered, it is interesting....

Time will tell in this matter as to the Company's actions behind the stage curtain.

Sadly, things getting rather sporty in that region seems to be the inevitable outcome....

The most important story surrounding unfolding events in the Ukraine is not the violent overthrow of the freely-elected Ukrainian government. It is not the American participation in that overthrow or the Russian reaction to it. No, the big story is much more ominous. The big story is that all major U.S. politicians, regardless of party, and all "news" media outlets, electronic and print, are deliberately lying to the American people about this event.

That little finding is about the only thing during any conflict we can always count on.


I think we should put through an amendment that states our elected leaders that send our troops into any conflict should lead them into battle. Make the editors at our major news outlets the war correspondents. I think there would be far fewer wars and less media hype if those that sent troops in had some skin in the fight.

Sky-Guy,

Are you repeating the old saying that truth is the first casualty of war?

Sg

Essentially Yes, every war The US has been engaged in this and last century was based on false premise. Anyone who can objectively study history knows this. I wonder how the rest of the world feels about America these days?

And What is the US going to do, spend billions, risk war, to go and fight for freedoms in Ukraine? The same freedoms which are rapidly eroding for Americans here on our own soil? Freedoms which we enjoy less and less of each day? FU Washington DC

I've been in touch with my Russian friend who's brother is still in Crimea. His brother works at resort on the south coast. His wife and newborn daughter are both back in Moscow. Seems like the flights back to Moscow are just as full as the ones into Crimea. That don't bode well for things .

His assessment is pretty much spot on in my opinion, "As long as a war doesn't break out, I don't care if Crimea stays with Ukraine or joins Russia. Either way, there will be a change of power, and the incoming folks will demand a new round of bribes. The average Ukrainian will likely suffer a lot as a result of all this."

All because a people wanted to get rid of a corrupt leader. Apparently we can't do that in the 21st Century!

Freedoms dead. Patriotism is dead. Corruption is alive and thriving. And that just sucks!

The impetus to toss that leader was supposed support from the west and the EU. Putin was pushed into a corner, how could he stand by and let the west take Ukraine? Always follow the money. Who benefits from Ukraine coming towards the west? Who else can supply the EU with fuel? Who is interested in cutting Putin off at every possible angle because he supports Iran, Syria, and any other pian in the wests ass? There is no appealing to a higher motive for the west Ukraine it's an economic and political play all the way. Putin called their bluff by going all in and it caught people off guard. How they worm their way out of this will be interesting . Two groups will pay for the show however American taxpayers with more debt and Ukraines with life and life style.

"One cannot wage war under present conditions without the support of public opinion, which is tremendously molded by the press and other forms of propaganda." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion." -- Joseph Paul Goebbels. (1897-1945) Nazi Propaganda Minister. Source: Speech, October 1933



SNAFU....

The Secretariat of state just got rejected by Russia on every single point he tried to make and every proposal he made. Looks also like the russkies parked their bonds and other assets before the meeting. Obama is playing checkers while Putin plays chess. looks like it will be a long spring for the community organizer and long face for Secretariat.

I really don't believe anything of major significance will happen. The status quo will be maintained. Some jawing back and forth between States will occur, but the EU wants the fuel and won't risk a war on their doorstep. The US won't want the dollar to be upset anymore than it’s already been. Nobody is going to do a damn thing. Right or wrong, good or bad - the Ukrainian people are going to get sacrificed for the "global greater good". Putin's already won. Book it.

Now, if he cuts off the supply of HOT Ukrainian babe dolls...THEN we're gonna have a problem...

Are you contributing to the situation?

Markets rally as weak sanctions announced. Imagine that.

Moscow exchange up 3.7 % Dow up 1.1%.

Looks like diplomacy worked...........for Wall Street.

Poor Ukraine's

I know that it is an enlightened group that peruses this forum, but consider that the Ukraine has been in turmoil for a very long time. Consider,

Exhibit 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ukraine

I have heard that, that while, 'war is dangerous, it's beginnings and endings are treacherous'.

Many people have fled in advance of this situation, and if history provides an example, many will return.

Please realize that I am compassionate for the people, however we should all remember that verbal memory's are generational, and history is recorded and will outlive the media that it is recorded on.

Such an enlightened group as this is knows who writes the history.